RST – I just follow you, I’m a big fan…then the Allman Brothers in the summer, that must have been fun.
Jorma – Absolutely! I live in Southeastern Ohio and we’re NASCAR fans up there you know, so it was the “NASCAR Rocks America” show, and I love the Allman Brothers. My only regret was that we only got to do five shows with them. It was really great playing with the guys. They really play loud, I gotta say. We got to jam with them a couple of times; we got on stage with the stack of big amps with lots of speakers. I haven’t done that in a while. I was like “whoa?!” And I got to know Derek Trucks who I really like, and we’ve done some work with Derek.
RST – He really listens doesn’t he?
Jorma – Whew, even when he’s got his earplugs in! Yeah, he’s the best, just a really sweet guy, great player, great attitude.
RST – So, I haven’t heard tapes or anything, did you get to take some solos with them or did you…
Jorma – Well, I mean…Dickey picks the jam songs, and I don’t remember the names, I think we did one One Way Out and ah, just some stuff like that. Oh yeah, everybody gets a solo. You know, Dickey looks at ya’ and by God you better be ready to solo.
RST – And then of course, in the summer, and then again in the fall with Phil Lesh.
Jorma – Yeah, I mean you’re right I really had a great year last year. The band that we did at the Warfield in June was Phil, myself, Prairie Prince, Steve Kimock, Zoe Ellis and Caitlin Cornwell (the two singers), and Pete Sears. I don’t sing harmony and I’m not used to working with people that do. But after having them do I Am The Light Of This World and some other things, I was like, man I wish I could afford to have these gals with me all the time. This is “the berries,” you know! I had a great time and then Phil called me to do the last couple of shows of the Dylan tour, which was fantastic. I’m treasuring my Bob Dylan backstage pass, and Bob actually remembered me.
RST – I was gonna ask if you had played with him before.
Jorma – Maybe over the years, I don’t remember. We met at Gerdes’ Folk City in 1960. I’m sure he doesn’t remember this, I remember it because he was already Bob Dylan, ya’ know. But anyway, he came over and said, “Jorma, nice to see you.” Then he called me up on stage and we got to do “Highway 61” and a couple of other things. And what a great band he’s got, Charlie Sexton, and what’s the other guitar player…
RST – Larry Campbell
Jorma – Oh, wow…and Tony Garnier, and what’s the drummer’s name…
RST – Dave Kemper, used to be Garcia’s drummer…
Jorma – …just what a great band. I’m a big Bob Dylan fan and I’ve never heard him with a better live band. I think it’s just great.
RST – He seems invigorated.
Jorma – Yeah, and he’s playing all of these neat little things. “Wow, Bob’s playing lead!” It’s great.
RST – What do you think of the whole approach of segueing and improvising between songs, because you’re more inclined to improvise within the songs, whereas with Phil you’re often segueing from one into the other.
Jorma – Right, it certainly is something that I wouldn’t do given my druthers. But one of the nice things about working with Phil is he’s such a knowledgeable…and Phil has a lot of feeling…. but he’s a knowledgeable, intellectual playing artist. And he has these overall concepts you know. And he looks at you and says, “play.” “Play what?” “Whatever you wanna play!” “OK.” And obviously sometimes it works better than other times, but I mean it’s neat you know. And after a while my friends will say, “man you guys jammed for forty minutes on that song.” And I’ll say, “really it seemed like a second.” (Laughter) Phil is great, I’m not just saying this because I’m hoping he’s gonna hire me again. I just really had a great time playing with him. He’s got all of these songs, and you’ve got to rehearse and we’ve got our charts and all this stuff…but you’re right…. When the time comes to take off, he just opens the pen and let’s you run.
RST – Are you jumping on in the spring or in the summer at all?
Jorma – He hasn’t asked me, but he knows that I would…. Another thing I like about Phil also, I like the way he rotates his cast of characters. I think that’s really cool. Because, he gets to do exactly what he wants to do, you just can’t beat that. His bands always sound good whoever is playing with him. Of course I like it especially when I get to play with him, but you know….
RST – I’ve never heard a musician express higher praise for Jack Casady than Phil either. He has always put it well as to why Jack is a unique and special bass player. Could you talk some more about Jack?
Jorma – Well, Jack is perhaps my oldest friend. We’ve been pals since, oh gosh, I guess ’57. Jack is really great, and Jack is one of these guys that has actually created something. There are a lot of guys that do a lot of different kinds of stuff with the bass these days. There are some great players out there. But Jack is definitely, when Jack plays you know you’re hearing Jack. There’s no question in your mind about it. When Jack and I play together, Jack listens so well to…of course we’ve played together a lot…but we just really read each other well. He’s just a great non-traditional bass player. It’s really funny though, because he knows how to do all the real traditional stuff, and sometimes it’s really hysterical…. We’ll be working on a tune or just jamming with an idea, and he’ll be playing like a Motown part, and it will be like, “ah, that’s really great, let’s do that,” but of course by the time we get to playing it’s gone somewhere else completely. That’s just how it is. The part never to be heard again you know, but, it’s in there somewhere.
RST – Back to the Phil and Friends tour, what did you think of playing with Warren Haynes?
Jorma – I got to know Warren pretty good on that tour. Great guy. Another fabulous player, I love his music and all the different stuff that he does.
RST – He seems like a pretty down-to-earth guy.
Jorma – Absolutely, and he’s played with everybody. He’s got a huge track record of playing with lots and lots of really interesting people. It’s amazing. Warren’s been active for many years. Before he became Warren that we know he was always Warren doing something.
RST – You knocked some Dead Heads on their ass with your rendition of Dupree’s Diamond Blues. People LOVED that. Were you familiar with that song before the performance?
Jorma – Actually I’ve been thinking about doing it myself with Tuna, I might ask if…the thing is I can’t sing the chorus part, it’s too high for me, that’s why we had the girls sing it. What a great song! The answer is I’m really unfamiliar with that stuff, I mean I’ve known the guys for years. One of the things that is really, that knocked me on my belt when we started to learn these things. You hear a song like Dupree’s Diamond Blues, it sounds like Keep On Truckin’ or something like that, I mean it’s in that family, but it’s not, it’s really different. I think it’s fantastic, it sounds like you oughta know this stuff, but if you don’t know it, you can’t play it, because it’s really different. There are little subtle timing things, and odd-ass little changes. I had a terrific time with that song. Then Pig Pen’s thing…ah…
RST – Mr. Charlie?
Jorma – Yeah, Mr. Charlie’s Blues. I think I’m actually gonna get off my butt and actually learn the words, ‘cuz that’s a great song. (Plays some of it on his guitar) Yeah, great song.
RST – It was interesting because the first fall show, at Barton Hall with Phil, you were kind of laying low, maybe because Derek and Warren had been on the tour for a while.
Jorma – Right.
RST – Then the other two (without Derek, the tour-ending New Hampshire and Amherst shows) you were more aggressive with your playing. Were you at the first show just to get the feel for what was going on with Phil’s current unit?
Jorma – Yeah, pretty much. I didn’t know where we were going with it. It was really nice to come in and have other guys to coast on. I hadn’t played with Phil since the June thing. And I was just thrilled; of course we had all the charts written out, which helped remind me. I mean, St. Stephen is just not a lightly undertaken song, you know? I definitely was coasting on the boy’s coattails a little bit to find out where we were going, then it was like, “OK, I can do this. I know where we are.”
RST – Could you talk about the Fur Peace Ranch for people who may not know anything about it?
Jorma – My wife and I have this Fur Peace Ranch in Southeastern Ohio. Basically, it’s a place to learn how to play stuff in an unintimidating fashion. I call it a guitar camp, because I’m a guitar player. But Pete teaches there, we’ve had drums, Jack is a regular with the bass. We have all kinds of people, Chris Smither, Rory Block, GE Smith…
RST – Arlo Guthrie, Alvin Youngblood Hart, Peter Mulvey, it’s unbelievable!
Jorma – Yeah, the whole gang, yeah. Peter Rowan is coming, and Steve James, do you know Steve James?
RST – No, I don’t.
Jorma – He’s a finger style guitar player from Texas. You have GOT to turn yourself onto him; he is absolutely something else. Mary Flower, another great guitar player, dobro guitar player from Colorado – all of these people. We’re open from the end of April to the end of October, with some other things here and there. ** Note – They now have limited winter sessions. ** Sessions are from Thursday night through Monday morning. We have two two-hour workshops and one one-hour workshop every day, so there’s like five hours of workshops. We’ve got a great kitchen. People live on the premises… jamming… it’s just a really neat thing, you know?
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Our next installment will travel back to San Francisco in the 1960’s…
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