Guys like Pretty Lights started doing live band stuff also around that time, I think

Exactly, exactly right. Or a guy like Tyko or whatever when they have a full band. So it felt like the time was right to try and return to the stuff we were doing. And we took a little bit of a different approach at the time. The reason that Joel came about was that Dan, the bass player in The New Deal, also had another band called Dragonette. They were huge, had a lot of hits, did a lot of stuff. And Joel was the drummer for Dragonette. We couldn’t find a drummer in Toronto that we could practice with once or twice a week to sorta teach the ways of The New Deal. And Joel, who I knew for a long time before that, is a good drummer. We decided to just give it a fling with Joel.

In the beginning it seemed to be moving in the right direction. It felt right at the time. As we moved along, I was feeling that it wasn’t as collaborative on stage, as it should be. You know, what we were talking about a couple of minutes ago, it has to be as a unit. It has to be everybody pulling and contributing musically on stage. And as we started to play shows, it felt to me that it wasn’t a full New Deal experience. It was getting a little tough for me in particular to improvise and create the music I wanted to make on stage with Joel. That’s not saying that Joel is a bad drummer, what it’s saying is that as I said earlier, that it’s really difficult to be the drummer in The New Deal. Like it’s really hard. And not everybody can do it. We found out after a little while it just wasn’t feeling good. And to be perfectly honest, it was reflected by a number of people that were coming to see us play. And I don’t blame them. Cause I felt at the time it wasn’t as good a New Deal experience. And we sorta burned that trust with our fans. So at the time, which was about three years ago, I said, “I can’t do this right now. I’m not excited to get on stage because I don’t think it’s going to be some sorta sublime transformative experience.” When I say that informed our decisions for TND3, I’m not saying that lightly. When we decided to come back, we made a list. I made a list of things that had to change in our approach to The New Deal. Not just onstage, but off stage. We would approach our offstage New Deal experience much the same way we’d approach the onstage, which is “Okay, let’s see what happens.” We couldn’t do that anymore. The seismic shifts in protocol and accountability, expectation, responsibility, all the boring things you don’t want to know about but you need to have to have a happily working band business, those things had to change. I equated it to, nobody wants to, if you have cockroaches, nobody wants to turn on the light and see them. You’ll just keep the lights off and pretend they’re not there. That’s what we did for a long time with our band.

The decision was made that if we’re going to do this now with Davide then we owe it to him, to ourselves, to our fans, to the general New Deal band to do this right and to make the changes we need to make. That took a lot of time as well. A lot of that was informed from TND2, I didn’t try to solve the problem, I just went along with the problems. Not to say that anyone else was the problem. I’m not saying that Joel was a problem or whatever. It was just general issues that we weren’t taking care of, just letting pass, and then they were coming back to haunt us later. And so, you know, it just kind of sizzled out in late 2016. We had made Mercury Switch, which to me is a great record, it has like at least 4 or 5 great songs, a bunch of which we play in concerts. I’m proud of that record, we play it in concerts, but it’s not particularly a New Deal. At least, when we would play the songs live on stage, they weren’t particularly New Deal. You know, what we do with those songs now is very, very different than how we played them when the album came out. So it’s far more of an experience now than it was previously, which was, “Let’s just play the song as is and move on to something else.” That’s not how a New Deal concert is supposed to be, it’s supposed to be a journey from the minute you start to the minute you end. And it wasn’t a journey, it was kinda like an elevator ride. Okay now this floor, now this floor, now this floor, like that.

Speaking of Dragonette, I was just wondering if they are still active at all or has that sorta run its course?

The Dragonettes aren’t playing anymore for a number of reasons. One of them being that split between Dan and Martina [Sorbara]. But I think that it had already run its course. It was sorta shifting from being a band to being Martina. And that happens. Martina has become a solo star and [has collaborated] with various music stars in Europe and wherever else, so there’s no real need for a band anymore.

That makes sense.

So when you combine that with the split then there wasn’t much of a reason for Dan to try and keep that going. Then you add in the fact that The New Deal was revitalized, then there’s absolutely no need for Dan to keep going with that. For us it’s about a positive experience: a positive musical experience, a positive social experience, and a positive creative experience. And, I don’t think that Dan was getting any of those things by the end of Dragonette.

And then, the last thing about the Dragonette sphere. You mentioned that you’re not in touch with but are on good terms with Darren. What is your relationship or collaboration, if ever, with Joel?

I am still friends with Joel. I don’t see him that often. Joel has now become more of a songwriter and producer. And he’s doing some good stuff. He’s been working with some artists, he’s getting some good play, and I think he signed a publishing deal. So he’s definitely using music. And I think that, that’s kinda what he wanted to do. He joined The New Deal with the best of intentions and we had him in with the best of intentions. But, you know, it wasn’t really his cup of tea. And like I said, it’s not everybody’s cup of tea. You have to kinda take it if you want to do it. He was far more interested in songwriting or arranging or production for other artists. Even while doing The New Deal stuff and that’s what excited him. That’s what excites him. And if you can find something that excites you musically, then you have to go with it. And that’s how he keeps busy.

If I saw him I would have a drink with him, for sure. We don’t have a lot of fights. We don’t have a lot of people that don’t like us. When we find people that don’t like us, we’re like, “That’s odd.” Because we’re usually billed as the nicest guys around. We’re friendly with everybody. We try to be fair with everybody. We haven’t made a lot of enemies as The New Deal. And certainly not within the band’s inner circle, I can’t think of really anybody that would be like, “Oh those assholes.”

Of course. Speaking of side projects, I want to talk a little bit about The Omega Moos, your project with Brendan [Bayliss] and Ryan [Stasik] of Umphrey’s McGee. I believe you’ve known those guys for a very long time. What’s the mindset with The Omega Moos, and what are you trying to get out of that project that might be different from The New Deal?

The catch phrase that we use in The Omega Moos that we use for anything is, “It’s the Moos.” What that means is, what “It’s the Moos” means is that “It’s cool.” That anything goes, if you screw-up, that’s fine, “it’s the Moos.” By no means am I putting down the Omega Moos; that [catchphrase] crystallizes the focus of the band, which is: It’s supposed to be fun, it’s supposed to be hanging with friends and it’s supposed to be a lot of laughs.

And that happens a lot when we’re with the Moos. We’re constantly laughing. We’re messing lyrics up, we don’t mean to. But what we’re doing is we’re trying to respect our musical friendship. This started as a means, it’s funny, I was just talking about this with someone the other day, The Omega Moos have created this aura. We don’t care, like it’s all good, anybody can come and have a good time with us. You can get sloppy with us, maybe we’re gonna get a little bit sloppy. But we’re all here just to have some fun. And one of the purposes that it serves, if you take a band like The New Deal, but you particularly take a band like Umphrey’s McGee, those guys are one of the hardest working bands in music today. Those guys were on the road

for 120 shows a year forever. They’ve scaled back a little bit.

Not even that much. They still play a crazy amount for how big they are.

They still play a crazy amount. They’re huge. Every single success is deserved. Every single success is the result of crushing hard work, like immense hard work. Like stage stuff, the lights, the PA, the arrangements, the sound, the amount of time, focus, and energy put into their fan engagements, their love of their business, building their business, the chances they took with their business. And that makes it a very serious operation. As it should be when you have that much money on the line. Everything is very serious and it has to be at the level of Umphrey’s McGee. The Omega Moos are the opposite of that. So what it does is it enables two very hardworking, very focused, very serious guys, like Brendan and Ryan, to be able to get on stage and make music and just have fun with their friends. And not worry about fluffing the notes, not that they would get in trouble with Umphrey’s if they did that, they’re all great guys, they’re the nicest guys I know. But, you have a responsibility when you’re in that band to be doing what you’re supposed to be doing. The arrangements are incredibly complex in that band. The musical stuff is like Zappa Ask, you got to be on your toes, you got to have your brain going 100% and that’s that.

Your brain is definitely tired after an Umphrey’s set.

Yeah, so in The Omega Moos, it’s like a relief valve. It’s like: “I’m going to open a beer and I’m going to play some 80s covers with other great musicians, and I’m going to have a great time doing it.” And that is like a relief valve, for them and for me and for Davide, who is the drummer in The Omega Moos as well.

When did Davide join the project?

Just pretty recently. His first gig was two weeks ago in Columbus. He’s got the same sense of humor and the same musical knowledge as me and Brendan and Ryan and I knew that he would be a perfect fit. The previous drummer, Nick, good drummer and there was no problem with what he was doing. But I knew that Davide could click a little better with what we were trying to do and the fact that I play in a band with him would make him available whenever I was available. Not that Nick wasn’t available, but it just made it easier. And he got it, right away. He fit right in there with the humor. And Brendan and Ryan love him. So it makes for a fun time. And it’s got to be fun, the mood can’t be work, it’s got to be fun. And that’s kinda the purpose. It’s supposed to be fun for us and that rubs off on the people in the audience. “Fine, this is supposed to be fun, I’m not going to worry about if they mess-up a verse.” You know, it’s just a good time, which is what it’s supposed to be, which is kinda rare in music when you reach a certain level, it’s not really a good time anymore. It can be creatively fulfilling but it’s rarely a good time because of the travel, because of the expectations, because of the work. It’s a business.

When did the Omega Moos start initially?

We started around when The New Deal took that eight month break when I had a kid. Dan had moved to England to do Dragonette. Darren and I were looking for something to do. (Darren was in the Omega Moos originally.) We started a side project called The Join, eventually, which was me, Darren, and somebody else just sitting in. It’s been Marc Brownstein, it’s been Aron Magner, it’s been, you know, a bunch of people. It’s been Joe Russo and Marco Benevento. We just go off and start jamming. Yeah, we had two drums and two keyboards, that was incredible.

That would be a serious moment.

I’ve been in like 12 side projects with Marc Brownstein. We used to play with every single person you could ever think of. We’d always laugh cause we got all these bands and we just have to decide if we were just going to use one of them and play. We couldn’t find those people, cause it’s all different people. But Moos was a thing where Darren and I got in touch with Ryan, and we were going to do some trio shit. We were just going to play some covers, we didn’t really know what we were going to do and Ryan said, “Why don’t I bring a guitar?” And so we were like, “Sure, sounds great.” And we just played a lot of covers and jams. And that just kind of morphed into… We would laugh and be like, “Okay, so we’re going to have a mandate. The covers have to be between 72 and 85 and they have to be sorta dance party-ish, a little bit. And those are sorta the only rules that we have.” And sorta anything else goes. “It’s the Moos.”

I’m curious about your take on the current jam scene, considering you are someone who’s really seen it all. The beginning of The New Deal to now has spanned most of the post-Grateful Dead jam community.

I think it’s better than it’s ever been. It’s really, if you spend just a second looking around as a music fan, it’s really hard to ignore. Right? Like it’s there, you may not like it, it may not be your cup of tea, you may be into country music or hip hop or rap.

It’s impossible to ignore. If you uncover it, then it’s like, you know, it’s almost like walking down a quiet hall, hearing a sound, opening that door, and it’s the world’s biggest party happening inside. “Well, how did I not know about this? Look at all the people that are here.” And that’s kinda how this is, it’s like, you can spend your life not knowing about the scene, but if you decide to sniff around then this world of possibility, that people who are not aware, opens up. The level and depth, breadth and sheer number of bands that are making quality music out there that are sorta improv based, I don’t think has ever been bigger.

One of the things that make it such a big scene is that there are other bands that aren’t particularly jammy or improvised that are also related to this scene. Take a guy like Jeff Tweedy or take a guy like the dude from My Morning Jacket, there are..

Yeah, Jim James.

Yeah, exactly. There are these connections that one may not necessarily think they existed, but they do. There are all these sort of non-improvisation, non jamband, for lack of a better term, musicians that you know about, that are out there, that are connected to the scene, and that expands the scene exponentially.

Yeah, like we recently, over the summer, we had Vampire Weekend on the cover of Relix. And they’re a band nobody would think of as relating to jamming at all. But, as it turns out Ezra Koening is influenced by The Dead and the drummer Chris Tomson, likes Phish. There’s all these connections that really open up the scene to a wider audience. Which is great.

One hundred percent. Any time that somebody can be introduced to a new style of music – and that goes both ways. That goes jambands being introduced to a new style of music, whether that be Vampire Weekend or My Morning Jacket. Or the other way around: a My Morning Jacket fan whatever being like check out the Disco Biscuits. [That] does nothing but good for our scene.

To wrap up: Going forward with The New Deal, are you going to see how the tide takes you, as it were, or are there concrete goals and plans for the future?

We can’t allow the tide to take us anymore. That was one of the changes in terms of expectations, accountability, and everything else that we decided when we started TND 3. We’ll be releasing an album every three months, basically.

Got it, and that would be like The Sessions?

Yeah, the Asylum Sessions. I think Volume 2 [came out] February 7th. But it’s like, we have so many albums that a release doesn’t matter anymore. I mean I just want to review our set album No. 1, which is called Phoenix, read a review of that yesterday and someone pointed out that, that album was released in the middle of the night. Yeah, we’re just putting it out there. What are we going to do, get a billboard? We have another album coming out in three months later and another one coming in three months after that and we got a fully mixed multi-track live album coming out in about two months.

Oh wow.

Flushed with music, it’s an amazing album. It’s a concert from Charlotte in November. The New Deal has put out live albums before, but it was few and far between; it has to be a special album for it to be there. So this is an amazing record. And the album that’s coming out tomorrow, it’s tough to finally agree on which awesome piece of music you want to put out there for people to hear. We never had that experience before. Right, we never had all this music ready to go. We relied on our live improvisation in concert and that was that. But now the future plans are basically, release an album every three months and you can’t, you have to go and play. When we decided that we were going to do the Smallest Venue in Every City tour, the intention was to introduce Davide and to introduce New Deal back as a viable band. That has succeeded. You can’t stop playing now. You can’t stop playing concerts, it’s like, people are fired up to see the band. What am I going to say? No? There are tens of thousands of bands that would kill to be in my position now. People really want to see your band play, they’re really into the music you make, and if I was on the outside looking in, I would be saying, “What is that idiot doing? Why is he not going to play concerts? Isn’t he a professional musician? Go and play concerts, what are you doing? Get on a plane and go play a concert, like what are you doing? Why are you here if not to play concerts?” Like, that’s why I’m here, and I said to my wife the other day, “This is what I’m built for, like I’m built to be the keyboard player in The New Deal. This is what it seems that I’ve been put on Earth to do. I’ve done a lot of other things in my life, some of them have been good and some of them have been fulfilling and some of them have not been fulfilling, but I can tell you that the one that feels the most natural to me is the one I’m doing again now, which is being the keyboard player in The New Deal.” It just feels what I am built to do. That’s my future plan, is to be true to myself, be true to my musical self, continue to be the guy in The New Deal. It’s what I love to do.

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