BR: I remember thinking when I first heard the album the Black Crowes recorded at the Barn a couple of years ago that Larry didn’t change them to fit his vision; he became a Crowe.

JK: That’s right; and that’s the same thing he did with Hot Tuna. Larry has such an open heart and loves music so much that whoever he’s working with, he just gets into their space.

BR: In the nicest of ways.

JK: Oh, yeah. (laughter)

BR: The good folks at Red House Records sent me a couple unmastered cuts just to give me a little taste of what to expect on the album. One is “Angel Of Darkness” –

JK: (laughs) That’s a dandy, isn’t it?

BR: Oh, man – you tell me: it’s like a cool mix of vintage Tuna – like a cut off of America’s Finest, maybe – with a freshness at the same time. I haven’t been able to pin it down yet …

JK: Well, again, that’s Larry. I’d written a bunch of songs, but I really didn’t want to write all the songs. I’d decided that I was really going to work on co-writing with other people on this album – the whole is oftentimes greater than the sum of the parts, right?

So I’d asked Larry to bring me a song, which he did: “Angel Of Darkness”, which I loved. At that point, it was just a verse and a chorus and Larry asked me, “How’d you like to write the rest of the lyrics?” And I just went, “Wow – that’s great.” It was a challenge for me – he already pretty much had the music.

When we got into cutting the tracks, Larry already had that signature rhythm guitar part that you hear. I’m obviously going to have to learn it to play it live, but on the album, what you hear is Larry doing the rhythm thing and I’m playing lead.

BR: That’s Larry on the … Jorma-ish part? (laughter)

JK: Yeah, I loved what he played; that drop-D tuning thing he was doing. I told him, “Lar, I can learn to do that so we can play it live, but I hate to overdub myself. Let’s play it live and play it together.” So that’s one of the things that adds a little magic to the chemistry.

You mentioned the freshness you heard; you know what it was like? In a way, it was like doing a Jefferson Airplane session where one of the other guys wrote the chart and I was really free for the lead stuff. I didn’t know where I was going with all the changes, you know what I mean? For me, it was really exciting in a way that, in some respects, I haven’t had for a great many years.

BR: Aw, that’s cool to hear. The other cut they shared with me was “Second Chances”, which is just lovely.

JK: Oh, thank you so much, man – thank you. That’s one that I wrote; actually, Barry helped me with the music on that. And then in the studio it was Larry who, when we talked about arrangements, would say, “Try this.” Or “Try that.”

I remember in the old days when the Airplane was recording: we had some great producers … but we must’ve given them such grief, you know? (laughter) ‘Cause everybody’s a genius, right? (laughter) If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years, it’s that I may be good at what I do, but I don’t consider myself a genius. I’m open to suggestions.

So in the case of “Second Chances”, it was “What do you think about this?” “How about this?” We all worked together and came up with a beautiful version of the song.

BR: Absolutely. And who’s playing that sweet jazzy lead?

JK: (laughs) All I play is the acoustic guitar on that song – what you’re hearing is Barry on electric mandolin.

BR: No – really?

JK: Yeah – how about that? (laughs)

BR: Oh, man … what a great tone.

JK: It totally is.

BR: He sounds like a buttery old archtop or something. I never would have guessed it was Barry on mando. I mean, I play acoustic mandolin, but …

JK: And a lot of the time when we play, Barry’s on acoustic mandolin, of course … like when we’re doing our duo thing. But yeah – the electric mandolin is a totally different sound. And Barry’s a genius; he really is.

When Jack and I first asked him to play with us in Hot Tuna, Barry began to learn rock and roll like you would bluegrass or classical. Most of us just sort of blunder along – Barry takes it all in and makes it part of him.

We do a song on the album called “If This Is Love, I Want My Money Back” and I did a solo on it. After I cut the solo, I told Barry, “I want you to do like a Dickey Betts sort of thing – parallel lines to mine.” And Barry was like, “But every note you’re playing is a bent string …” Larry and I told him, “We know you can do it.” (laughs)

So Barry went over my solo, sat down, and played a parallel solo to mine on electric mandolin. If you play mandolin yourself, you know – when you bend one of those little strings a lot happens, right? You really gotta be good. And he nailed it – every single guitar trick that I did.

There are a number of great players out there, but I don’t know anybody who has taken the electric mandolin as far as Barry has on this album.

BR: I look forward to hearing it. You know, the bond between you and Jack and the way the two of you formation fly when you’re playing is one thing … but you and Barry have really developed something over these last few years as well, it seems.

JK: Absolutely. I think one of the things that’s really important – and it’s true for Jack and me, too – is that Barry and I are really good friends. Music in its finest possible sense is a great way to talk to friends … and we talk a lot to each other.

BR: That’s what the jams have always felt like – you were having conversations.

JK: We do, we do … I know there’s a lot of ways to approach playing music, but that’s what works for us.

BR: Do you usually write on the acoustic?

JK: Yes, I do. You know, I’ve never met a guitar I didn’t like – and I love all my guitars. But I hardly ever play electric guitar unless I’m playing with somebody else. Even if it’s going to end up as an electric song, I tend to write on the acoustic – not always, but usually.

BR: I had some more gearhead questions, but I was going to try to be good and not stray too far …

JK: Aw, come on – lay it on me. (laughs) Lay it on me.

BR: Okay … (laughter) Well, one thing is the Les Paul with the Bigsby tremolo that you’re playing these days in the electric Tuna setting. It seems like that’s replaced Big Red – your faithful old hollowbody Epiphone – as your main axe. What’s the story behind the Les Paul?

JK: It’s a great story, actually. I‘ve never been a Les Paul player before … and now that I am one, it’s one of those things where you wonder, “How could I have waited so long?” I still have Big Red – and I love it as well, but … you know, you get a new instrument and it gives you a little different perspective on stuff that you’ve been doing for years.

Anyway, I know this guy at Gibson USA down in Nashville and we were talking at a gig somewhere three or four years ago. I said, “Look, everybody’s always asking you guys for a free guitar – but I’m not asking for a free guitar. What I’d really love, though, is to buy a Les Paul with a whammy bar – I’ve always liked a whammy bar.”

He told me that they hadn’t made one for years, and I said, “Well, I’m throwing it out there, so if something pops up, let me know. Give me a decent artist’s price on it, and I’ll buy it.”

So one day a number of years later, a package shows up at the ranch. My wife Vanessa calls me and asks, “Did you order a guitar?” And I said, “No … open it up.” She does and tells me it’s a Goldtop Les Paul with a whammy bar.

BR: Oh, man …

JK: Yeah – it was one of those guitars of the month that they made a few years ago. Not a custom shop guitar, but one of those runs of a thousand that they’ll do. It was one of the first factory-installed Bigsbys that they’d done in a real long time. It’s a Les Paul 295 with a Florentine cutaway – a really beautiful guitar.

So I ended up leaving Big Red home, figuring that if I didn’t, I’d go back to the comfort zone, you know? I just took the Les Paul out on the road and played it … and ended up falling in love with it.

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