What made you want to leave New Riders?

It was tough to pay the rent when I was going out on the road with less than I started with. Everybody thought of taking a break. It looked to me like the whole thing was breaking up. But then it kept going and kept going and kept going. There’s some people, like Rusty (Gauthier), who was in it longer than I was. And I was in it 13 years. So the band really kept going on another 15 or so. We played a mutual gig with them in ’94, and I was like, ‘Hey man, you’ve been in longer than I was.’

Are they still together now?

Well, John’s in Mexico, so they’re not playing together now.

*Do you keep in touch with him? *

Yeah, I do. But Mexico has a slow form of communication (laughs). He’s taking an early retirement, but I’m sure he’ll get back to it. All those years, man, you’re due for a rest.

Besides ‘Panama Red,’ either forwards or backwards, which New Riders songs does David Nelson Band play?

We do ‘Contact,’ the David Torbert song about the bounty hunter, and ‘Lonesome L.A. Cowboy,’ which is another Peter Rowan song.

Do you keep in touch with Buddy Cage at all?

Yeah, we see him in New Jersey with Stir Fried. He sat in with us on a couple of occasions.

Barry and Mookie played in Kingfish with Bob Weir and Matthew Kelly as did the late Dave Torbert, who was in New Riders of the Purple Sage. And as we mentioned, Bill also played in New Riders. Barry also played in the Baltimore band Cowboy Jazz with David Nelson Band drummers Charlie Crane and Arthur Steinhorn, who also played in Kingfish. Comment on how that musical incestuous adds to David Nelson Band’s chemistry.

That’s part of the West Coast scene or attitude, this loose affiliation of musicians who often go play with other musicians from the same area. Sometimes the music is way different. You’ll find a fusion saxophonist sitting in the New Riders, which you’d think couldn’t happen.

There’s times when Barry really sounds like Garcia, that bubbly sound.

Yeah, Barry has a sound like that at times, but he’s not copying anything. He loves Jerry’s playing. He started down that road when he was young first learning guitar so it’s definitely an influence. But Barry’s way into swing playing. He can play all kinds of stuff. He’s one of the most fluid guitar players I’ve ever heard. He’s loose and can make it flow and build. It’s just amazing.

What did Garcia think of the David Nelson Band?

I never got to know what he thought about it. I gave him a tape at Mardi Gras at a show one time that he put into his pocket. But I never got to talk to him about it. I did play him my songs years before that. In ’87, when he got out of the hospital, I went over to his house. I had made a demo tape of ‘Yvonne,’ ‘No Souvenirs,’ ‘The Wizard’s Son,’ ‘See So Far’ and one called ‘Throw Me a Bone’ that we never recorded. I played it for him and he dug it. He said I should do something with it. And he kept pestering me over the years, ‘Did you ever do anything with those songs?’

Right after that, I was on the Dylan and Dead tour to handle the acoustic instruments. I was going to play mandolin, but it was too hectic. Those gigs were like ongoing car accidents. So we never got to do any acoustic playing, but I was taking care of all these acoustic instruments. So Jerry got up in front of Dylan and asked me, ‘Hey, by the way, did you ever do anything with those songs?’ So there I am standing there with Bob Dylan looking at me, with Bob Dylan thinking, ‘Oh, he’s a songwriter friend of Jerry’s’ (laughs) because songwriting was kind of new to me and not what I started out doing so I was starting learn it. And you need validation. You gotta know that you’re doing OK. So I’m sure Jerry knew that.

What do you miss most about Garcia?

Hanging out with him. There was nobody more fun to hang out with than Jerry. It was so fun.

He was a funny guy, huh?

Yeah, really funny. And into all sorts of stuff and aware of all kinds of things. The latest things. Movies, TV, all that.

I know he recommended books all the time.

Yeah, I recommend books too. I’m reading a book by Jim Hightower called ‘If the Gods Had Wanted Us To Vote, They’d Have Given Us Candidates.’ It’s a great book.

Hightower has endorsed Ralph Nader, the Green Party candidate, for President.

Has he? Well, he doesn’t say don’t vote. He says to start at your local level and work up from there because the most removed thing is the electoral college. But think of your local guys. Get to know them.

That’s excellent. That’s the whole Nader/Green Party thing. So you’re recommending that book.

Yeah, and also a book called ‘Cash’ by Johnny Cash. Oh reading about the birth of rock ‘n’ roll at Sun Records with Carl Perkins and Roy Orbison, you hear real stories. I found out I’m not so bad as people might think I am. I was recalling one time I jumped on a bed in a hotel. I was like, ‘How come everybody isn’t getting crazy tonight?’ I fell back on the bed and my boot heel punched a hole through a wall. So we were asked to leave. So that became my reputation: ‘He tore up a wall in a hotel.’ So I’m reading this ‘Cash’ book and he says, ‘In a moment of amphetamine-induced insanity I chopped a doorway between two rooms with a fire axe’ (laughs) and Perkins just watched saying, ‘Well, I’ll be damned’ calmly. I mean, chopping a door, you have to go at it for quite some time (laughs).

That’s the road (laughs).

Yeah.

You were involved in Phil Lesh & Friends from the very beginning. Do you think you might do that again?

Yeah, it was really fantastic. We would love that. He let me do five of my songs. That was just really a thrill.

He’s really doing something special with that. He’s not playing with the other guys, but he’s doing his own thing pretty well. Do you think you might play the Further Festival with Bob and Mickey at some point?

I’m so busy on the road, I haven’t kept in touch with them, but I’ll have to find out about that. I’d sure be willing to if everything was all right.

I understand Japan went over very well.

We’ll be glad to go back there. That was really a great gig for us. We have a CD now of the Japan video. You get the CD for free if you buy the video. That’s got ‘Long Gone Sam’ that’s really nice and completely different from the album. It gets out there.

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