In a new interview with Weeklings, Metallica biographers Paul Brannigan and Ian Winwood claim that the band finds themselves in severe debt. As Consequence of Sound points out, Brannigan and Winwood claim it’s likely the band “have lost more money than they’ve made” since 2010, citing both versions of their Orion Music + More Festival which “were disastrous financially.”

“By their own admission, the two stagings of the Orion festival were disastrous financially, and the shambles that was the Through the Never movie cost $32 million and will only recoup a fraction of that amount,” they said.

Brannigan and Winwood also added that the band is forced to tour out of necessity these days, saying, “Factor in HQ staff salaries, crew retainers and assorted running costs associated with maintaining an entertainment corporation and you can easily understand why the band – of necessity now rather than by choice – are driven to tour Europe every summer.”

The band is currently working on their next album, the follow-up to 2008’s Death Magnetic. The group will also headline the U.S. version of Rock in Rio in Las Vegas and will also tour around Europe.