Jambands.com Site Editor Dean Budnick spoke with Warren Haynes for a preview of the 21st annual Xmas Jam earlier in the week. The site continues its conversation with the guitarist/vocalist/songwriter as we also take a look at the latest Gov’t Mule album, By a Thread, his creative process in the studio, his live work with the Mule, the Allman Brothers Band, and the Dead, and where he finds his energy, his seemingly “endless well of inspiration,” as spoken by one of the most well-respected musicians on the planet.
RR: Let’s start off with By a Thread. I was impressed with the range and depth of material, plus the fact that the chemistry within the new quartet gelled so rapidly.
WH: We rushed into the studio immediately after we hired Jorgen Carlsson, our new bass player. We forced our hand, which wound up galvanizing this new chemistry. I guess it could have gone either way, but we found ourselves in the studio having a great time and really happy with the way the music going—how smoothly and quickly everything was going—and the different directions we were exploring. It just all seemed to work.
RR: You once again chose Willie Nelson’s Pedernales Studio in Texas to record an album. How did that environment feed into the energy for this new quartet?
WH: We did High & Mighty there, and we went there for a couple of reasons. One is just to get everybody in a sequestered environment where we’re only thinking about writing, rehearsing, performing, and recording. That studio is literally in the middle of nowhere, outside of Austin. I think I only got to Austin twice in the two weeks we were tracking.
The other reason would be that Gordie Johnson—our co-producer and engineer—loves to work there. That’s his favorite place to work. He brought it up, and it was just a win/win situation. We loved the environment. We loved the equipment. It is just a really fun place to make a record. We were comfortable with having worked there on High & Mighty, so we went in, but we approached things completely differently. We set up in a whole different manner, utilized different parts of the studio, and just kind of went for a different sound. Even though those two records were recorded in the same studio with the same co-producer/engineer, they sound completely different.
RR: I’m glad you pointed that out because the live feel of the tracks, the ambient atmosphere of the room, and the sense of song structure is very strong on the album.
WH: Well, thank you. I feel like that as well, but it’s nice to hear someone else agrees.
RR: The amount of influences, old and new, and the variety of your various guitar playing comes across in an impressive way, too. I was wondering how much time you had with these songs before you went into the studio?
WH: Well, you know, that’s a good question because, somehow, the rumor has been perpetuated that we wrote all these songs on the spot which is not true. We did, however, write three of them in the studio on the spot, in addition to arranging “Railroad Boy,” which is a traditional song. So four of them sort of rose out of the floor while we were there.
The other songs I had written in the last year and a half or so with the exception of the last two songs—“Scenes from a Troubled Mind” and “World Wake Up”—which Danny [Louis, Gov’t Mule keyboardist] and I wrote together. Those songs were recorded during the High & Mighty sessions. Everything else was fairly newly written, but nobody had heard the songs until we started rehearsing.
We basically went to Texas and started rehearsing songs that nobody had ever heard before, and then, when we were ready to start recording, we started recording. It added freshness to the overall thing because we were just kind of piece-by-piece building this puzzle. So some of the last songs that were written were written out of necessity. We were thinking, “it would be nice to have a song more like this or more of a certain tempo, or a certain groove, and something different.
Part of the mission was for every song to be different than the other. That’s one of the things that I really love about the record because I think that’s the case.
RR: Right. I’m old school. I want an album experience, instead of having to cherry pick songs off a record, so the variety on By a Thread, and its consistent quality falls in line with my own philosophy. For example, I love how “Railroad Bay” segues into my favorite track on the album, “Monday Mourning Meltdown.” I can’t imagine what it must have been like to hear that latter song on playback at full volume.
WH: It was really fun recording that because I had just written that song right before we started recording it. I had some preconceived notions about how it should be, but we tried a few different approaches, and wound up with the one that’s on the CD, which I love, that goes on this journey. We also did an alternative version with Danny playing a trumpet solo in the middle, and a different guitar solo, which is available out there. There’s that, and an alternate version out there of “Broke Down on the Brazos” with Karl
Denson playing a sax solo. And there’s obviously three versions of “Inside Outside Woman Blues.” We did three versions, and we liked all three. Since it was completely a live performance, which includes the vocal—we didn’t overdub anything on that track—we thought we should make all three of them available to whoever might want them. Number 3 is included on the CD. Number 1 will be on the vinyl, and number 2 is coming out one way or another so anybody that wants all three will be able to obtain them.
RR: When I first heard “Gordon James,” I thought of “Wharf Rat” and all those great Jerry Garcia ballads. What do you believe you tapped into on that song?
WH: Well, you know, there are certain songs that are musically driven, be it driven by a groove, or by a riff, and there are other songs, which are driven by the lyric, or melody. “Gordon James” is one of those lyric-driven songs that’s a story. The story’s about a war profiteer. What we were trying to do is to tell that story and somehow create some background, some backdrop that enhanced the story as opposed to taking away from it. When we got in the studio, adding the strings and Jorgen’s crazy volume-swirled bass stuff, and all the weird keyboard stuff that Danny did, it kind of turned into, not so much like Pink Floyd, maybe more like a David Gilmour solo record or something.
I think what you’re feeling is the Celtic influence, that folk song influence where the melody is a variation of something that’s been around for hundreds of years, and utilized to tell a story that really is the most important aspect of the song. I’ve always maintained that it’s music first. Someone who doesn’t understand the lyrics should still enjoy it. Certain songs are meant to sell the story, and that was our mission with that song. When you listen to it, there’s still a pleasing factor that comes from just hearing the music itself. I think that’s one of those songs that some fans will have to hear 5 or 6 or 10 times for it to really grow on them.
RR: One that grew on me right away was the new reading of “Forevermore.”
WH: Well, thank you. “Forevermore,” That’s the only song that goes back several years. I wrote that quite a while back. I actually did a version, which wound up on my Live at Bonnaroo CD, which was solo acoustic. So some fans were already familiar with the song. I had never thought of doing it as a full band. To me, it was always like a folk ballad. But Gordie Johnson came up with the idea of arranging it from a band standpoint. I was open and I said, “Yeah, let’s see what happens.”
Once everybody started interpreting it, and adding the input, I was like “wow—this is going to a whole new place.” It’s fun to see something grow like that in a way that you never envisioned but I was totally happy with it the acoustic way, but now that we’ve turned it into an electric song, it is kind of both worlds. It starts acoustic, goes electric, and winds up acoustic. Again, it’s one of those songs that takes a journey. I’m really happy with the way it turned out. It’s what I call one of those departure songs. I think every record that I grew up loving had two or three songs on it that you didn’t expect. I think “Forevermore” is one of them.
RR: Another striking moment on By a Thread occurs on the opening track, “Broke Down On the Brazo” with a guitar duet featuring you and Billy Gibbons.
WH: That was the last song we wrote during the sessions. It was written out of a jam that started between Jorgen and Matt [Abts, drummer], and then Danny and I got involved, then eventually, it turned into an actual piece of music. I disappeared and wrote some lyrics, came back, we recorded it, and it came together really quickly.
When we listened back to it, my first reaction was “wow, it sounds like some old school ZZ Top song that nobody’s ever heard.” And so I’ve been friends with Billy Gibbons for a long time. I thought I’m going to call him and see if he’s interested in being part of it. I called him, we sent him the track, and he called back and said, “Yeah, let’s do it.” A few days later, we were face-to-face trading guitar licks. It all came together really quickly. We spent about 30 minutes, and then we were done.
His contribution just elevated the song to a whole other level. I’m a big fan for a long, long time, but now I don’t even want to think of that song pre-Billy.
RR: I love the solos at the end, which makes me think of old school records where what was happening during the fade out of a song was interesting, especially when a guitarist laid down a certain effect. You don’t really hear that anymore on modern records, but you have those cool fade outs on a few tracks on By a Thread. Do you consciously think of track fade out effects during the recording of an album?
WH: Yeah, it’s usually just an afterthought, or in some cases, something that Gordie comes up with, or one of us comes up with. Like you, I like any little thing that takes your mind and twists it for a moment. Being a huge fan of great studio records through the years, you try and borrow some of the philosophy that went into making those records. So you try and focus on all the little aspects of your favorite records, and what made them your favorite.
That’s one of the things that I miss about a lot of modern recording. For some reason, some of that element has dissipated through the years. In some ways, a lot of it has to do with creating something in a short period of time, like having a small window in which you’re pressurized into making something the best you can make it during that time frame. A lot of my favorite records were made very quickly so the people making them were extremely tuned into what they were doing. And then when it was over, they breathed a sigh of relief, and then moved on. (laughter) You do tend to get into some hyper-aware mode at the moment, which is good, I think.
RR: You are legendary for working in many bands, and in many formats, while rotating in and out of various circumstances. How do you keep your energy up, what source do you tap into, and how do you juggle these different projects? Is it a day-by-day process because of this rather unique career track you’ve forged?
WH: Well, you know, I think…(pauses)…if I’m going to be as busy as I am these last few years, I would rather be that busy with several different situations than if I was working the same amount with just one project. I think bouncing back and forth, from one to the other, tends to breathe fresh, new energy into what’s goin’ on. That’s due to the fact that I’m surrounded by great musicians in each different world that I’m bouncing back and forth from. There’s an endless well of inspiration that I’m drawing from.
For someone like myself who likes so many different types of music, just having that opportunity is its own inspiration because most musicians don’t have that opportunity. You sort of get pigeonholed into showcasing a certain side of yourself that people expect you to be, and a lot of musicians don’t have the opportunity to showcase other sides. I’ve been very lucky to have that opportunity. I guess, in some ways, I’ve forced that, as well. Gov’t Mule, alone, stretches the gamut of influences. Between Gov’t Mule, and the Dead, and the Allman Brothers there’s not only a lot of material, but also a lot of diverse material. Which for me is a breath of fresh air. I would find it a lot easier to get stagnated without all that.
RR: The Allman Brothers Band and the Dead went through a rejuvenation process this year. For example, the Allman Brothers had a tremendous run at the Beacon, after Gregg Allman returned from his illness, ending a two-year hiatus from that venue. The Dead, of course, returned after a five-year absence from the live stage. Can you compare and contrast those two stints with the individual bands?
WH: Let’s start with the Allman Brothers’ 40th anniversary. The whole year, but especially the Beacon experience, was unbelievable. The 15 nights at the Beacon with all the special guests was something that will stand out in my mind forever. It was not only magical in the way that all these people were together on stage and, in a lot of cases, for the first time, but also, the music that came from it was as good as any of us could have expected, or hoped for. Throughout that entire experience, we talked about how, every night, we felt like the music was just playing us. We were just on some wave, and riding that wave. It was like we could do no wrong. I say that in a way that is understanding and appreciating that some higher force was involved.
The Grateful Dead experience for me was amazing because I was honored to be part of that. On one level, just to be part of it on a historical standpoint, but then when you add the great music moments that occurred—there was some really amazing music that occurred during that situation.
I think that’s what we’re all here for. It’s great to continue something as important as the Allman Brothers or the Grateful Dead for 40 or 45 years. But neither one of those bands wants to be there for nostalgia purposes. They both feel like unless they can be creating new, fresh valid music—even if you’re talking about reinterpreting the old material—then, what’s the point? In both cases, I think that’s very inspiring.
It’s been a really long year for me, but it’s been an amazing year, as well, and one that I’ll look back on fondly forever.
RR: The Mule is also not looking back, and pushes forward with the new quartet. What are your thoughts about the live work of Gov’t Mule in 2009?
WH: Well, I think we all feel like the new chemistry is really special and growing and getting better all the time. I think the band—having gone through a lot of ups and downs—is on a real upswing right now. We’re all excited about watching the growth of the new chemistry. Jorgen’s doing an amazing job. It’s just a pleasure to walk on stage night after night with this quartet.
RR: Let’s finish with a look at the 21st Annual Xmas Jam in Asheville. Every year is tremendous, but I’m intrigued by several guests this year. We just ran a news item on our site about William Bell’s participation, and that’s going to be really amazing.
WH: I’m really excited. At first glance, it may not appear to have the star power that some of them have had in the past—especially the 20th anniversary. But when you look at the endless possibilities of collaboration and great music that’s going to come out of this lineup, I’m really proud of the diversity and the great people that have volunteered to be a part of it.
You brought up William Bell who is an old friend of mine. William, for people that don’t realize what a legend he is, co-wrote “Born Under a Bad Sign.” He wrote “You Don’t Miss Your Water (‘Til Your Well Runs Dry),” which he had a hit, I believe, in 1961. He wrote “Everyday is Like a Holiday,” which is a song that’s very close to my heart. We became friends in the early 90s, although I haven’t seen him for quite a while, and I’m looking forward to getting together again. He’s just a beautiful human being, in addition to being such a seminal part of rhythm ‘n’ blues and soul music history. People are going to freak out because of the performance that those guys deliver.
I’m really happy to have Ani DiFranco. We’ve been hoping for the last few years that she would become available. We finally worked together for the Pete Seeger tribute at Madison Square Garden, and we had a chance to talk. She said, “Yeah, I’d love to come.” I think she’s a wonderful addition to the lineup.
To me, it’s all about diversity. If we’re going to have a seven or eight hour show, it’s great for that show to stylistically go all over the place. That’s one of the things that I love about the Xmas Jam. We’ve had everyone from Ralph Stanley to John Scofield, from Jackson Browne to Living Colour—it’s a crazy amalgamation of great music.
moe. coming back is something I’m really excited about. I think they have a special connection with Asheville, as well. Counting Crows—I think is going to be a wonderful addition. This tour that they’ve been doing with Michael Franti & Spearhead, and Augustana in this traveling caravan show they’ve been doing, in some ways, parallels what the Xmas Jam is all about, too. Adam [Duritz, Crows frontman] and I have been speaking on the phone about the endless collaborations and possibilities with that.
That’s one of the things that I’m most proud of with the Xmas Jam—all the people that get together and, in some cases, for the first time, and appear on stage and present these collaborations that no one would ever expect. And all the great guests—Jackie Greene and Jimmy Herring and Trombone Shorty, and, of course, Porter [George, Jr.]. It’s going to be amazing. It’s going to be one of those nights of music where every set is different from the set before it, but equally exciting in its own way.
