Photo by Stuart Levine
In the wake of an extensive North American tour that will take Railroad Earth through winter and into the spring of 2014 to support the release of their seventh studio album _ The Last of the Outlaws_, drummer Carey Harmon took some time out of what is already a hectic and exciting schedule to speak to Jambands.com. Enthusiastically and courteously reflecting on what was a huge year for his band, Harmon seemed humbled by the support of his fans while describing his feelings on the current state of the record industry.
“Music is not going to stop,” said Harmon, “and trying to play on people’s consciences – that they will buy the record because they should – I don’t think is a good business plan.” It can be safely predicted that people will always be making music, regardless of industry downfalls or benefits, especially if the world has bands like Railroad Earth to supply that music. Following the Grateful Dead touring-business model, the newgrass sextet have built themselves a formidable following over the last thirteen years.
The New Jersey-based band will tour incessantly in support of The Last of the Outlaws, and with the hopes of spreading their music as far as possible. Last summer Railroad Earth performed their largest headlining concert to date, at Colorado’s historic Red Rocks Amphitheatre to well over eight thousand loyal fans in what was a rain-soaked testament to what a band can achieve with the help of a supportive fan-base and the will keep on playing.
Let’s talk about the new album, The Last of the Outlaws. I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about the recording process this time around, because it’s got a really classic-sounding vibe, but at the same time it sounds very full for a band that mostly works in acoustic instrumentation.
Yeah, well that’s good to hear, I appreciate that. We went in with probably as little a plan as ever and the idea was to get as many ideas out as we could as a group and in a group setting. So we found a place where we could have enough space to set up and stay set up and just kind of let it go. We’d come in every day and just start jamming and somebody was always hitting record; we had a great engineer there to record everything. And we would leave on a regular basis every couple days with things posted to a server that we could all download and listen to and go, “You know what, write it. Three and a half, four minutes into this thing, at the end of the day it’s a really cool thing.” So a lot of things were able to be built that way and it also gave us the chance for Todd [Shaeffer] to just do his thing, which is to come in usually with something that’s just guitar-based that’s coming more from the singer-songwriter head.
But to be able to mix the two elements – there was no producer involved, which gave us a lot of freedom – the majority of the tracking, the overdubbing and getting things done was kind of in that free-flowing environment, which got done months ago. So we were looking around for the right person to mix it and finish it for months and that’s why it still wasn’t finished until recently. But we learn a little bit each time, and that was the path we took this time.
So you did everything live in the studio?
You know for the most part. You cut everything – sometimes things that you’re hearing on the record, we didn’t know we were going for necessarily. There’s things that were there that were end-of-the-day sort of things. You know, “One More Night on the Road,” and that kind of stuff wasn’t necessarily painstakingly done through takes. It was sort of like, “If it’s fun and it sounds like the record, let’s keep it there.” So it had that sort of flow to it. There’s obviously layering that goes on in the record, too. So there’s things where people went back and added instruments, especially John who got to stretch out, which was great. John Skehan got the chance to play piano finally on a record. He’s a great pianist; he was a pianist before he was a mandolin player.
That was a really exciting thing for me to hear, because I know he is a classically-trained pianist but we’ve never heard that before on Railroad earth songs and it adds such a great layer to songs like “Grandfather Mountain.” And he plays an organ on “When the Sun Gets In Your Blood” that made the whole song for me.
You know, I will say that you have heard John play classical piano in a sense that he really does approach the mandolin differently than most mandolin players I’ve heard. I think a lot had to do with playing the piano on the mandolin; all the voicings and the parts that he thinks of. But to hear him finally sit down and play the piano…Honestly we just finished a Thanksgiving run at the Sherman Theater in Stroudsburg and that was the first time the piano – or the digital piano – made its way out on to stage so we played “Grandfather Mountain” for the first time in a PA, loud in front of an audience. So it’s gonna be fun, it’s gonna open up a lot of things.
You’ve done some really interesting things on this record. The biggest thing that jumped out at me – and I knew I was going to love it as soon as I saw the track-listing and the times for it – was the suite that you did, “All That’s Dead May Live Again.” It’s a twenty-plus minute suite with seven movements, which I think is just awesome and ambitious and you really don’t see that a lot from many bands. How did you approach that in the studio? Did you record that all as one piece or did you take different cuts?
There were different cuts. The idea of the long instrumental has been in the works for a long time and a lot of it has been in the mind of John Skehan. Various sections of this I’ve heard from him and we’ve messed around on for a while, but never had we really put the whole thing together. It was very much assembled. We had this section and that section and then Todd came in with the song “All That’s Dead” and he added the other song that’s in there as well.
It was very much an assembled thing and it was interesting to see if it was all going to make any kind of sense together. You know, what order do you put the whole thing in? And then we did start piecing it together and, yes, some overdubs came along and other ideas got layered on top of it. It wasn’t until months ago that we sat down to rehearse and had to learn how to play the whole thing (laughs).
How does a song like that translate live for you guys?
I don’t know. We haven’t figured it out because I don’t know if it’s going to be a full piece every time we play it. We’ve messed around with the idea, or at least talked about the idea, of you know, “What if we just brought out this section or this other section as part of something else?” but now and then you play the entire piece. So it remains to be seen, because I think we would like to play a lot of those sections more than it would fit to actually play that whole thing.
Then you can kind of get a “Terrapin Station” feel to it where you can maybe play a different section of it at a certain point or break it up a little bit or play just parts of it each night. I look forward to hearing that live.
Yeah, me too, I look forward to playing it live, because I think that will be a really different thing for us.
Something else that really jumped out at me…we were talking before about getting the samples out and letting people hear little cuts of that. What really popped out at me was on your Facebook page, you guys announced the pre-order for the new album, which is great and I think the signed-copy promotion is always cool. But along with it on Facebook there was a statement – and I don’t know who handles it or who wrote it – that said “If one out of every two of you who ‘like’ this page were to pre-order a CD or digital version of the new album, Railroad Earth would hit the Billboard charts as one of the top five best sellers in our first week of sales.” I think that is such a good point because if you’re looking at it, you have well over 95 thousand followers on Facebook. So that would be almost 48 thousand pre-orders and that would be pretty incredible.
That would put you on the map, you know? It’s more of a statement about record sales and what has happened and the point that the industry is at. But yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s an interesting thing when you have a certain amount of fans that come out to see you and you have shows like we played at Red Rocks where we filled it up with over eight thousand people, which is a bit mind-blowing for us to headline a show like that. You get that many people here and you realize how many fans you have and then you actually try to make a studio record and put it out but, yeah, it’s a strange time. I think it’s going to work its way out eventually and we’ll find a model that makes a little more sense.
Well that’s a good point you make, too, that it will work its way out. I think it has to work its way out because the music is not going to stop, so where else can sales go?
Music is not going to stop and trying to play on people’s consciences – that they will buy the record because they should – I don’t think is a good business plan. It’s a noble idea but you’ve got to have a better idea than, “You know I think you guys should really do this,” because I don’t think that’s going to last. It seems like subscription-services and these things are really – people don’t understand – but they really need to work things ahead. And I use them myself! It’s opened the world of music up to me where I can listen to all sorts of stuff all day, which is awesome. Yeah, we’ll see. It’s fun to make the music. At least I have the opportunity to have a vehicle to be an artist and make music. That’s the important thing.
Obviously you guys share the Grateful Dead mentality and business model where touring is king and because you play so many live shows – I’ve seen your touring schedule and it’s extensive – do you think that helps with sales at all? I would hope it helps so many people come so often to see your shows and hopefully that translates in album sales.
You know, I think the best promotion of the band is the band. The experience that we’ve had from the very beginning is that it’s not that there’s any other kind of sales pitch with it, it’s just that people need shows going, “Hell yeah, I just had a good time.” Moving people live, that is where we’re at our strength. So if you want to advertise a band like that, be it to sell a record or anything else, the best thing you can do is to have people in front of you. So yeah, it’s a big part of it for sure.
How reassuring is a show like a packed out Red Rocks? It’s such a beautiful and large venue, which you’ve played several times in the past, but now you get to be the top billing on that stage. How reassuring was that to see all those people come out?
It’s very reassuring. And it’s great to feel the music that you’ve played on all different kinds of stages and all different kinds of venues, and to put it on that level of stage. I think the most satisfying part of Red Rocks was that there was a certain feeling that we belonged. It would be one thing if you were there and you were freaked out and you were in over your head and you just got to the show. Maybe it’s because we had played there a few times previous but, being there and having our own night, it felt like the time was right. I just felt that the best part of that experience was that I thought that we played a good show. And I felt like the music and the band belonged there. It’s not just being there, it was that this music sounds good on this stage being played to this many people, which was great.
Greensky Bluegrass opened for you there, right?
Yes, we had Greensky and we had Galactic.
Greensky is actually one of my favorite bluegrass bands and I’ve loved them for a long time. And they played a Halloween show this year dressed completely as Railroad Earth. But since they lack a drummer, you sat in…dressed as yourself for obviously reasons. I can imagine how much fun that must have been. Can you talk to me a little bit about that and how it all came together? How did it feel playing with phony members of your band?
Well first of all they nailed it; the costumes were hysterical, right down to the mannerisms. I was the only one in on the joke but I was supposed to get all of our band to stay up until two A.M. when they were actually taking the stage for that. It was a late-night set and it was a blast. They’re great people and I’ve known them for a really long time. They played a festival in Michigan and I can’t even tell you, it must have been 2003. It was a long time ago and we were paired up for a workshop with a band called Greensky Bluegrass in Michigan. We didn’t even know how to pronounce their name; we thought it was Green-ski. We thought, “What the heck are these guys?” We did a workshop and together and since then we’ve been bumping into each other. It’s great to see how they’ve grown and they are great people and certainly a great group.
I was wondering if you could also tell me a little bit about this: You just played your Horn-o-Plenty Thanksgiving shows, which went over very well. And you performed a full cover of Old and In the Way with Peter Rowan. Where did the idea come from to play a full album; to play that particular album on Thanksgiving?
Well it didn’t come from the idea of playing an album just to play. We had heard that Peter was going to be in the area and possibly be available to do a show. And I think it was John probably, but somebody came up with the idea when we were driving around to do Old and In the Way. We’ve known Peter for years and obviously his efforts and that record in particular have a lot to do with why you and I are even on the phone right now. (laughs) You wouldn’t have a Railroad earth without that record or those guys reinventing bluegrass and extending that whole world of music.
So when you do an album like that – and you’ve done other cover songs in the past, and when you cover bluegrass tunes, a lot of those songs don’t have drum tracks – how do you approach adding percussion and drums to songs like those and albums like Old and In the Way?
That’s a really good question. With what I’m doing with this band, and in particular when you put it on a record or you do a cover like you speak of, I think the make-up of bluegrass has so much percussion in it. If it’s done right and it’s done well, between a banjo and a guitar strum and mandolin chops, you have a drum set in there. To me, you have to be careful to support all of those things but not take away the feel. There’s a feel to this music that wasn’t created by drums, as opposed to rock and roll; as opposed to so much other music that comes from a backbeat and comes from drums and then gets built around it. It’s the exact opposite, to me, with this stuff. You have to try to find your way in the sounds that you choose, and to adapt to the field that a strum is. It’s a slightly different pocket than what a drum can be. And it’s fun; it’s fun to play drums where there was no drums.
The drums are actually pretty prevalent on the new record which I think is great. You have a lot of classic sounding rock and roll songs and even the ones that aren’t rock and roll style – and they’re a little more jammy and a little more country, folk or bluegrass – the drums are right up there and it really adds a lot to that type of sound. And you don’t always get that in bluegrass groups, which I think is why it’s so hard to pin a genre on a band like Railroad Earth. But I think that’s actually an advantage.
I think it can be an advantage. The whole thing came from an unconscious thing; it just came from people just playing together and seeing how it came out. And it’s been our positive and our battle throughout the existence of the band. It’s always been, “What is this? What’s this sound?”
Do you think a theme night will become a staple of the Horn-o-Plenty from now on, now that you’ve done it so successfully?
We would love to and I don’t think we’ve been as excited, post-show, in a long time. It was a gas and a lot of that had to do with Peter because Peter is a hard-to-pin-down character. It was really the singer that he brought with him [Yungchen Lhamo]. She was just this amazing singer that took the whole thing in a different direction. But absolutely, you think about things like “Okay, what are we going to do next with this kind of thing?” But I have no idea where that will go or what would be next.
If you had to pick something personally, to do a full album, what would be next?
Well that’s a good question. It depends if you actually had that person to do it with.
Let’s say no boundaries; let’s say they’re available. What would you do?
I’d probably do a Neil Young record. To bring in somebody like that to work with would be awesome.
On your Facebook page you’ve got a lot of comments from a lot of people requesting The Last Waltz, which this was a big year for and I’m sure The Band is hugely influential on your band, and obviously Levon [Helm] on yourself. You know, they covered a lot of songs like that and added a rock and roll instrumentation to it as well.
That’s a great idea that I wouldn’t have thought of right away, but sure. That’s a pretty easy one to imagine. Andy [Goessling] and Tim [Carbone] used to play with Rick Danko, so there’s a lot of association for them for sure.
Well I’m sure that would go over well, and I think you could pull it off. Now speaking of Andy, let’s actually shift attention to the other Andrew in your band; Andrew Altman. He wrote a song on this new album. Was that a first for the band?
He did. He wrote “The Sun Gets in Your Blood” and it was pretty much done when he came in. I mean we would do things to it and the arrangement’s different, and there’s an instrumental section in the middle that John wrote that he already had as a piece of music, but that’s Andrew’s song which is great. You know, it doesn’t happen too often, and certainly more often than not all the vocal tunes wind up being Todd’s. We have recorded a Tim song before, but for the most part they’re Todd’s.
That’s actually, if not my favorite, one of my favorites on the album. I never would have guessed that it was written by someone other than the primary songwriter because it fits in so well with the others.
That’s the key. It would be great to have everyone singing and writing as long as it fits in as a whole. We know one thing which is when we back up a Todd Schaeffer song, the band really works. (laughs) But as long as it can sit within that context, I think it’s great that anyone can contribute.
Looking ahead, do you have any festival plans this summer? Will you be doing that circuit?
We certainly will, it’s a big part of our whole thing. The specific ones I don’t know yet. I know DelFest, over Memorial Day Weekend; it’s Del McCoury’s Festival which we’ve done every year except for last year so it’s great to be back at that, for sure. I believe we have a Red Rocks date for the beginning of August so we’re going to return there, which is great, so we’re working on building that bill. So it’s just going to be, hopefully, all of our favorites, which would be Wakarusa and Bonnaroo and all those things. And Telluride. Telluride has got a special place in our hearts for sure.
