As we reported earlier this week, in January, Matt Butler started work on the first Everyone Orchestra studio album in Brooklyn, NY. Butler recruited some of EO’s most famous alumni for the session, including Jon Fishman (Phish), Jeff Coffin (Dave Matthews Band), Al Schnier (moe.), Reed Mathis (Tea Leaf Green) Steve Kimock, Marco Benevento, Jennifer Hartswick (Trey Anastasio Band), Jamie Masefield (Jazz Mandolin Project) and Jans Ingber (The Motet). The Brooklyn Sessions album is almost ready for release but Butler is looking for some additional help via Kickstarter
. In the following conversation he discusses his plans for EO and the upcoming album.
The recent session you had in Brooklyn feat. Jon Fishman, Marco Beneventon, Al Schnier, Steve Kimock etc. is already being called a jam “supergroup.” Can you talk a bit about the session and how you translated your stage presence into the studio?
I’ve been doing [Everyone Orchestra] for 10 years and I basically decided that I wanted to try something different. My thought was to take the conducting improv concept into the studio, take the audience out of the equation and just kind of create a space where I can facilitate and conduct musicians—just having lots of space to create a bunch of material.
The original idea was to do this in a few different regions with a few different lineups. I wasn’t sure if it was going to be an album or a series of individual releases as the whole idea of an album is kind of blurred. It kind of ebbed and flowed as to how to release it. So my intention was to do one or two on the West coast, one up [in Oregon]—I have a pretty strong team of musicians out here on the northwest—and then one down in the Bay Area. I kind of have regional teams on some level. Some people have done it all over the place with me like [Steve] Kimock or Jennifer Hartswick, but there are very much regional teams that have done EO with me. This is a first in that kind of conceptual installment.
Obviously, having Fishman involved…he’s been so busy with Phish that since Phish “reupped” we haven’t had a chance to bring him into any EO’s as he’s got family and fun and stuff, so he’s just really busy. He responded saying “Yeah, I’d love to be a part. I hope I don’t miss it. But can you do it on the East coast so it’s easy for me to get to?” You know, I just kind of put out some feelers in the timeframe that Fishman said he could be available for it and this particular team just fell together. These are all people that have done multiple EO’s, some more than others, but everybody’s wholly privy to the concept and they’ve been with me through its development.
What was the setup like in studio? Did you record live as a group or were there individual takes?
EO has been many different things. It’s definitely evolved in the 10 years that it’s been around…it’s not just a regular musical concept of sorts. For one, I used to be the drummer and I’d hire conductors. Eventually, I tried conducting about five years into it and have been conducting ever since. So we set up a lot like we set up on stage—all in the same room and everyone could see each other. We were in headphones and we had some separation with gobos and various things, and we had an incredible array of microphones.
Did you have a producer working with you in the studio or did you take on that task yourself?
Steve Berlin [from Los Lobos] is a local guy here in Portland. He’s become a really good friend and a really staunch supporter of EO. Pretty much whenever he’s home and available and I’m doing a show, he’s been a part of it. He’s seen so many different musical projects and played in so many different things and produced so many different things and he just [said] “This is totally original; totally unique. Playing with EO is just such a release and so fun and you always meet cool people. It’s great. ” So he’s a really strong supporter. He’s not producing it, but he’s definitely helping [to] coach me along in the process and has offered his ears to listen to stuff as I get into the listening part of it. But he connected me with the studio out in Brooklyn. It was just an incredible studio with a massive amount of mics and amps and all kinds of stuff. It was a great place to do this particular concept because we needed a big room. The engineer was so good that I barely noticed he was there, in a sense. It was just flowing.
So we did two days of tracking and my whole intent was to try to hit a lot of different tempos; to give everybody space to lead some jams; to hit as many timbres…My intent of an EO show is to create a really dynamic, interactive experience for both the musicians on stage and the audience, and that the musicians all get a chance to stretch out and be heard in a unique way—that they get challenged in a unique way. I often push people’s comfort zones and it’s a little bit like a coach or something on that level. And then I just stretched out that overall concept over the two days in the studio and then included the possibility [that] we can stop in the middle of the jam and go “OK. Check it out. So, this is cool. Why don’t we use this as the ‘A’ section? Does anyone have a ‘B’ section? And then Al would come up with something all of a sudden we have these two sections and we kind of work it out…one’s in 4/4 one’s in 5/4 and then 6/8, so alternating. Then we put these two things together and say “So, let’s do this,” and we’ll go back and forth and we’ll all take turns taking solos and we’ll do that for 30 minutes and all kinds of stuff would happen within that jam. That’s something that doesn’t happen on stage ‘cause there’s this other pressure of performance—which is a beautiful thing—but part of the intent was to give the musicians a ton of space to just collaborate.
So was everything purely improvised or were there pre-arranged parts? Do you plan to edit the jams at all?
It was all conducted improvisation. Now where I’m at in the process is I have 10 or 11 hours of material to go back and listen to and to kind of cull the best of. I’m open to editing or whatever. To be honest, I’ve only listened to a little bit of it since I’ve left the studio and at the end it was kind of a blur. moe. just played out here and Al was like “I was so inspired. 48 hours after the session I just kept on hearing new music in my head. Ideas just kept on coming out.” We covered a massive amount of ground [in the studio]. You know, from really fast funky things to really ambient kind of spatial, environmental music and a little bit of everything in between. So I have yet to go back and remember what’s going on, but the intent was to cull the best and make a great record.
The way that we approached the session was that editing is a valid part on the back end. So we’d be playing, and in performance I might have done something to bring the song to a close or something, I’d go around three more times and let two more people take a solo on it or try breaking it down to a small ensemble. So we explore things almost a little deeper than we do on stage with the intent of, “OK. I think this 35 minute jam…well maybe we’ll just release that and that’s the record.” [Laughs]. You know? I’m still open to that idea.
Kind of like a Miles Davis Tribute to Jack Johnson type of thing.
Yeah, or Bitches Brew. It’s a little bit like that. There was this one particular hour long jam and it in itself I think might be a record. It moved along pretty quick between different sections, had a lot of different tempos and key changes and various things. And at the end of it I just kind of said “Well, maybe that’s it.” I’m not exactly sure yet… there’s a lot…[Laughs]…I’ve created a pretty big mixing job, but that was my intent.
So now you have this arsenal that you can dig into and pull out whatever you want. In terms of your role, were you drumming in the studio or were you strictly conducting?
I was conducting but there was one point on the second day where Fishman was deep in a story telling mode out in the lobby and Marco had to be somewhere at a certain time so I was like “Alright, let’s go back in. We have two hours left so let’s use this time with Marco and make sure we get in there.” Almost everybody was in [the studio] except for Fishman who was talking to somebody, so I jumped on the kit. I think I played kit for about 25 minutes that day and Fishman actually came in and did some “conducting” after a while. His conducting style is much different than mine. [Laughs].
You use some fairly obscure techniques on stage such as making use of cue cards. Were you employing these techniques in the studio or did you have a different approach for that setting?
The only thing that was really different as far as the way I was conducting was just kind of giving it a bit more space without the performance pressure. And the other thing was I had a talkback mic. I’ve never used a talkback mic before. I used it somewhat, but I can’t say I’m 100% comfortable with a talkback mic because I’m not looking for an exact thing from people. When I hold up “victorious outreach” or I hold up “victory” to show people…I go “1…2…3…4…Victory!” I don’t have a specific thing in mind. I just want the musicians to interpret and react and change together. It’s a little bit funny to say something into the microphone versus write it down. My intent isn’t to create strings like they’re puppets. I like the room for interpretation and I’m counting on that. But I did use [the mic] for various things. And we did do some of the more abstract things. You know, with this particular lineup a lot of what I was doing was designating the leader for a solo or for somebody to start something new. Everybody was very forthcoming with coming up with a riff that became a jumping off point for the next thing. So in that sense it’s like I’m directing traffic, of sorts.
Do you try to bring in musicians who have established a rapport with one another to attempt to create a dynamic for the other musicians to vibe off?
A little bit of everything. For my New Year’s gig I collaborated with the band Flowmotion from Seattle. They played their full 90 minute set and then we took a break right before New Year’s and we came back on and the Everyone Orchestra was basically Flowmotion and then we added a vibe player, a trumpet player and a mandolin player and another vocalist. It was kind of like Flowmotion plus. So in that case you have this whole band that has a whole rapport going on and a catalog they can fall back on, and I’m conducting them. Then there’s the gigs where I’m coming in and conducting 11 out of 13 people that I’ve just met that day and the conducting becomes very utilitarian in the sense of just keeping everybody together. That can be a really exciting thing also because it’s so fresh and so new.
So I like having teams but I also like diversity—I’m really mixing and matching. For the studio thing I didn’t have this exact lineup in mind when I was first thinking about recording. I definitely had these people in my mind. I thought these people would be great in the studio just because I know them well. [I know] their personalities, they’re really cool people, they’re great musicians…I think they play well together and with other musicians. It’s just kind of the way it came together. It’s interesting.
Specifically, Fishman, Reed [Mathis] and Marco, they’ve done a tour together as a trio. Fishman first played with Marco in Everyone Orchestra and then later they did a Benevento Trio tour. So when Marco came in there was a lot of immediate chemistry through them. But I like to throw in wildcards—I think it keeps everyone on their toes. So, while in this group there was a lot of familiarity between the musicians, it was definitely a unique mix for everybody.
Did these musicians, many of whom have lots of experience in the studio, bring some of their own improvisational exercises into EO? Specifically musicians like Fishman considering his background in Phish, Al in moe. or Marco and his jazz background.
You know I’ve done some the “Hey” exercises with Fish on stage before. That was just something where basically we’re taking turns leading some ideas and stuff and Fishman was like “Let’s try this thing…” We didn’t do that in the studio but the one that I can say we did similarly is we kind of fine tuned things we were working on and everybody spoke up and said “Why don’t we do that three times?” and “Why don’t we do the second half of that twice?” Everybody has input on that level.
But more it was just kind of like “Alright, Fish start a groove” and I’d just hold everybody out and I’d pick a key and look at Reed, or I’d say “follow Reed” and he would play a new bass line and everybody would be like “what key is that in?” Then we’d go and one by one I’d add people in and we’d grow it that way and try all of the different variable that were there.
Do you plan to bring any of the musicians back for the mixing phase, or is it your project to work on from here on out?
They’ve all basically said, “Do what you will.” A lot of people [said] “Can I just hear all of it?” [Laughs]. So I was kind of like “Alright, I’ll send you the 10 hours worth soon.” But Fishman was like “I won’t become like a peanut gallery on how you mix it or what you do with it. I empower you to do it how you want to do it.” I think everybody, on some level, is available for feedback if it’s necessary.
You know there were some very, incredibly funny humor moments where personally I feel like before I put that on the record I’d want to go “Are you OK with me putting this on the record?” Just because it’s a different thing, it’s pushing the boundaries of what people might think Jeff Coffin is, or what Jen Harswick is or something. We did this jam where I called it “the stories”, or “talking”, and we were doing this crazy musical jam and I’d pick somebody and we’d end it and that person would basically do a little diatribe or tell a story or say something or tell a joke and then we’d go back into the jam. We kind of went around and cycled through everyone talking and it was hilarious. Maybe that’ll translate…I’m not sure if it’s going to translate to the listener or not.
So I’m open to suggestions and what everybody might be thinking but I also think that part of the beauty of it both for doing an EO gig and doing this type of session is that they can just kind of show up and rock it and not have to do other things around it. I think that’s part of the beauty, especially for Fishman who’s really busy. He likes to just show up with his sticks and not have to learn a bunch of tunes and just fuckin’ rock. That was part of my original intent when I created this. You know, I’ve been in bands and the struggle to keep everybody together, and we’re going to go on tour, we’re going to spend all this time…I wanted to create something where it was more like “Here’s a container for a bunch of really good musicians and friends to get together, have a great time doing a show but not have the rest of the baggage about being in band come into play. I still like being in a band and I believe in that and all that stuff, but that was part of my intent. I was coming off playing in Jambay in the 90’s where my world had become basically just about these four people and it was a beautiful thing and I learned so much about my musicality through that experience. But ever since then I’ve been on kind of this expansion trip and that’s where Everyone Orchestra came from.
Have you decided on a potential release date for the album? When can we expect to hear something from the session?
I’m starting to review and mix in February. I don’t want to rush it but I don’t want to take forever to do it. I’m hoping I can get the thing out the door in the late spring early summer. That’s my hope. I have a few labels and distribution possibilities that I’m discussing and negotiating with right now. At this point EO funded this and we’re exploring the different ways that we can move it out there.
I’m also in the process of making a documentary on EO. The 10th anniversary of doing EO brought up the idea to get some interviews with players on their experiences with EO and try to help tell the story of what it is, because a lot of people still don’t know what it is. It’s still kind of amorphous and out there to a lot of people. I’ve had a videographer, he [covered an EO] show in Portland, he did all of Jamcruise and then he came out and he videotaped the whole session and interviewed everybody and videotaped pretty much every moment of the tracking. So that whole piece of it…that’s in the process right now. He’s matching up all our two-track mixes of all the audio with his video right now and that’s another piece of what we’re going to release or do something with. Who knows, maybe that is going to be the most exciting piece that we share with people. You know, just putting the visual on what was going on in the room can be really magical.
So that’s a potential DVD release?
Yeah…maybe a DVD release or an online something. The hard product thing is hard for me to get my brain around. But something like that. We documented it and it all came together very fast. I was in the process of making the EO documentary as this project popped up, and Peter [?] was like “I can’t not be there. This is like the biggest thing you’ve done in a long time.” So we worked it out and everybody agreed that it was ok for him to be there. I’m taking the next couple months off from performing and just working on these two things.
You mentioned that you plan to have the CD ready by spring/summer time. What are the plans for the documentary? When will that be ready?
Ideally I’m hoping that we can release everything in the late spring. I’m not sure how long the process will take from here since I’ve never done this before. I learnt a lot in the tracking process. I mean, I’ve made records before; I’ve just never made an EO record before. So once we get into the mixing I’ll be better able to project when we’re going to release it.
After you take the next few months off you return to the festival circuit for the summer. Do you have plans beyond that? Would you ever consider taking EO on the road for its own tour?
Yeah, I’m booked in a number of festivals already and there’s a whole bunch more popping up. I haven’t really pushed EO as a touring entity. Part of the concept is it works really well at festivals to bring different individuals from bands that are already there. Maybe something will pop up that will make doing some sort of tour more viable. But I’m focusing primarily on festivals and those types of events.
The other piece of what we’re building right now is a projection system to enable the conducting of the audience for large audiences to be a little bit more interactive. So the dry erase board…I can have an iPad that controls a projection system to send out images and words to the audience where a very large audience can see it.
That’s very cool. Now that you’ve laid down some tracks in the studio with these musicians, do you feel you have a more solid lineup that you could potentially rely on for a tour?
Well I would say that to get these musicians for a tour is a real long shot. Everyone is so busy. There’s always the possibility that the timing will match up and I can actually pull together these cats for a show or two. But maybe this will bring the interest for EO to a different level where doing a tour is more viable. There’s no shortage of musicians who are available and interested, it’s just having it fit with everyone’s schedules. But that’s my poison of choice. I’m not looking to form a static lineup that doesn’t change.
I’ve been doing these monthy shows in Portland all fall and I’ve got an incredible group—it’s rotated somewhat—that’s played about five shows together. Who knows, maybe like Blue Man Group we just set up shop and play locally a bunch and bring in the people and grow that way? I’m open to that as well. But I really enjoy doing the festivals and maybe bringing a few people with me, or bringing a core, or maybe just going to the festival and building the orchestra out of the various people that are there. Like Jamcruise is just such a perfect example. It’s just such a magical way to bring a really diverse group of people together. You know to be conducting members of Greensky Bluegrass and members of Cornmeal next to Taylor Hicks from American Idol and Black Nature from Sierra Leone Refugee All-stars was like, “Man, this is magical shit that is happening.” These people aren’t all going to go on tour together but they’re all onstage just pouring out their hearts. The magic is in the moment of them all being together doing it in that unique way. That’s what I’m purveying.
In a sense EO is kind of an artist collective in a similar vein as a band like The Residents. I know Fishman is a big Residents fan…
I’m really inspired by Blue Man, by Stomp, by Cirque de Soleil, by off-Broadway shows that incorporate humor and music and improve and performance. Musically, I come from a jazz, pop and reggae background. I worked with [Ken] Kesey for a number of years in the 90’s with my band Jambay and he was constantly engaging the crowd to interact. He was like, “The audience just wants to be in the band. Make them feel like they’re in the band.” He always felt the Grateful Dead did a really good job of that, to a certain point. So when we worked with Kesey we would give all the audience members instruments and stuff and sometimes it didn’t work at all and I learned a lot from those experiences. [Laughs]. I think that kind of looking at it like a stage show, or also looking at it kind of like a spiritual improvisational ritual is another place where I’m coming from—just trying to get everybody in that same moment as much as possible. The more I can do that the more successful the show is. The album is definitely a departure from that on some level, but creatively and musically with the musicians it seems like an important step to see where I could take it.
