Matisyahu has surprised skeptics since he came out of nowhere to deliver 2005’s smash album Live at Stubb’s. Since that time the self-proclaimed “Hassidic reggae superstar” has re-invented himself numerous times—jumping between such varied personas as pop star, jamband festival stalwart and hard-edged dub music revivalist. In 2009, Matisyahu added the Dub Trio to his longtime backing combo of keyboardist Rob Marscher and guitarist Aaron Dugan and, a year later, has slimmed down to just the noted dub musicians. After a summer on the road, Matis returned to Austin, TX’s Stubb’s to record a sequel to his breakout album. Recorded just over five years after Live at Stubb’s, the album showcases a very different Hassidic reggae superstar.
Shortly before the release of Live at Stubb’s Vol II, Jambands.com spoke with Matis about his second live album, his new band with Marscher and Dugan and his future recording plans.
Live at Stubb’s Vol II is a sequel to your breakout album of the same name. It was interesting to listen to the two albums back-to-back and see how much your sound has changed over the past few years. I imagine that was the impetus for returning to Sutbb’s to record your second live album?
Well, I wanted to make another live record since the last Stubb’s came out. It did so great and it was such a fundamental thing for me. The live sound has always been important to me so I really wanted to make another live record. It made sense from a shooting and recording perspective to record at the same place so you can hear how the sound has morphed and changed. So [ Live at Stubb’s II ] was about going back and playing different songs than were on the first record at the same venue. I think you will notice a pretty big difference.
Live at Stubb’s Vol. II features your current backing band, the Dub Trio. What has been the biggest change to your sound since your started working with them?
Well, it’s interesting because I morph to whomever I’m playing with. With the Dub Trio, I would say there’s no other band that can do what they do. I’ve never seen a band that can play the styles of music that they play as authentically—or who can create that sound without trying too hard. It is just very natural to them. It is definitely where I wanted the sound to go. I wanted my sound to have a real heavier vibe to it. In terms of their experimentations, it’s much less solo-heavy than the typical rock band—it is more about particular dubs and dub sections, you know? So its really opened me up and allowed me the ability to really get into the words I sing.
That is an interesting point because there aren’t many jambands these days who have a vocalist that doesn’t also play an instrument.
I sometimes go on these tangents where I’ll sort of go with the music. The way the words are coming out, I’ll really be able to feel them as I am singing. I feel like they really resonate in me, which is something that—after you’ve done the same song over and over and you’re onstage in front of a lot of people and there’s a lot of energy, lots of expectation and there’s a lot of volume—is hard to do. A lot of times I feel like I can get lost as a lyricist and a singer with all of these instruments—you don’t necessarily hear these words as they are coming out. But with the Dub Trio there’s a certain vibe that they can get into—and a certain space that we as a band will get into—and I’ll kind of get back to the words. I’ll get back to the lyrics, and I’ll be able to really kind of connect with that. And that’s something that’s a big part of who I am—being a singer, a lyricist and a rapper. So since I have been playing with the Dub Trio I feel like my lyrics and singing have really re-emerged within the music in a really cool way that still has this whole improvisational thing to it. A lot of times I’m taking lyrics from different verses of different songs and putting them together.
It is interesting because when you first started touring you played reggae music but the entire pacing of your songs was much tighter—with less room for improvisation. Over time you really opened up your sound and became much more of a jamband.
I would say that this record is a lot more dynamic. Like you said, the first record had reggae songs but, like you said, there’s a certain pace to it—a certain sort of like sticking to the scripts and, with Dub Trio, we were really not afraid to just sort of be more dynamic. This record might not be tighter than Live at Stubb’s Vol. I but it’s a lot more mature.
When I made [my first studio album] Shake off the Dust, which were the songs from Live at Stubb’s, my main influence was reggae music. I’d say reggae was my main influence even through [2006’s] Youth. That’s what I was listening to those years and the music that was most influential for me as a singer. And even though I was into Phish and all kinds of different bands, as a vocalist, the place where I thought I could express myself was listening to Bob Marley and these other reggae singers. That became my style—mixed with the fact that I was into rap and that I am melodic by nature. It was about combining rap with the melody and the place where that’s happening the most is in reggae music. On top of that, the fact that reggae music borrows from text from the Old Testament was something I could identify with. That became my trademark thing.
When I became religious there was a period before Youth where I stopped listening to popular music for about two years. That was leading up to Youth but I was still influenced by the music from before that time. After that break, I never really got back into reggae music like I did when I was 20-years-old. What I listen to is pretty much the bands that I hear from these festivals I play or what Rob or Aaron turned me onto. So a lot of the staple indie bands like Arcade Fire, a lot of the electronic stuff like Glitch Mob and everyone from Santigold to The Flaming Lips, as well.
Hip-hop music in general has plummeted over the past few years. The hip-hop artists that I’ve been into are Eminem and even Lil’ Wayne. The ideas and the concepts have been hard for me to listen that a lot. The music has taken on a whole different thing. And even as a vocalist, I’ve figured out how to use my voice in a way where I can fit in with different styles of music. The thing with the live shows, I’m now playing with this band Dub Trio. They’ve totally re-addicted me to reggae music. I’ve played with musicians over the past few years that could play reggae—and they studied up on it—but they didn’t love to play reggae. What would happen was there was this under pull away from reggae. And now with the Dub Trio, the dub is so heavy—and just righteous—and I just get back into it. We have movements that are full on hip-hop moments and rock moments and different stuff on stage but there is this underbelly of heavy reggae that is there in the live show that is not really there on the album.
How did you first meet the Dub Trio?
I worked with them and [producer David Kahne] on this cover of John Lennon’s “Watching the Wheels” I did for the Darfur benefit album that Yoko Ono released a couple years ago. But I knew them from Brooklyn before then. I was playing with the trio from the first Live at Stubb’s album, and I knew there was this other trio of music school kids that were playing reggae music. We were both touring and sort of seeing each other and I got a hold of one of their records and I got way into one of the songs on the record. I think I had a day off in Boston, and I spent the whole day wandering around Boston listening to their music and writing lyrics. So I knew it was a matter of time before we got to hook up. And after that fall tour—which went great, the band was great—we came back and I said, “Let’s do a show together—no rehearsals, just a full-on improvisational show.” We did it at the Bell House in Brooklyn. It just felt like this is what’s supposed to happen. We had Rob and Aaron there ‘cause I felt kind of attached to them too and that became the band for a while. That was the band for a while and now it is just me and the Dub Trio.
Do you plan to tour with the Dub Trio next year?
That’s the plan. I’m writing my next album with them as well as with some other people. I’ve been sort of writing now with a bunch of different people but probably will put out a record that’s just a band record with the Dub Trio. So that’s that. I’m also doing this other side project which is a totally different thing called Cloud Runner. That’s with Aaron Dugan and Rob Marscher, as well as Jason Fraticelli and Mark Guiliana. It’s a much different trip where it’s not really about the lyrics at all. We’re not playing my songs— we’re just doing these long form improvisations where you also float through multiple genres, much less centered around me as the singer and the idea of a vocalist. I am more part of the band.
Where did the idea for that project come from? Just a chance to use your voice in a different way?
Aaron and I have been playing together for so long—we’re close—and I love Rob. Those are two guys that I’ve played with that I always envision myself making music with for the rest of my life—Aaron has been with me since day one. He’s right there with me. I had him playing with the Dub Trio [originally] because Dub Trio is not known as a soloing band. That’s kind of their thing. To have Aaron there to do the solos, the two of them just worked off each other beautifully. They would double the lines and harmonize. It was really cool.
But now I envision the Dub Trio thing as sort of a different band—a separate thing. So this band will just give me an awesome opportunity to create with different musicians in a different way.
You actually first met Rob when you opened for Addison Groove Project, right?
We had done some shows together where we opened up for Addison Groove in New York, Boston and Baltimore. That’s the first time I saw Rob. And he was the stand out in the band. To me, it was all about Rob. The synths and the sounds and the way he was soloing and playing made me really love that band. We had the same sound guy for a while, too. When I needed a keyboard player for my band I had this tryout and invited Rob down and this other keyboardist. The other guy had a pretty good reggae feel so we kinda hired him. And then, as my styles were shifting, I wanted to get more into improvisation. I was working on my last record and, actually, I went to a Dub Trio show and Rob was there. And it reminded me, “Oh Rob!” he’d be the perfect guy! And I called him up the next day and said, “Rob, you gotta come play with me.” And that was a year and a half before the Dub Trio joined the band.
You planned to release Live at Stubb’s Vol. II before recording the show. If you were to look back at your recent tour, are there certain other shows you’d also release?
We did a big summer tour, we had some good shows—we had a show that we did in Moscow in Russia that was really, really great. I think it was recorded and I think up on my site. LA was a great show at Nokia Theater. That was like two days before we recorded Stubb’s. It’s funny, a lot of the shows after Stubb’s —that was sort of towards the end of the tour—were really, really great, which it’s funny because it’s like when the pressure comes off everything seems to gel. This one show at Washington, DC’s 9:30 was really cool…
Your last album featured a lot of songs that your wrote in the studio with different songwriters and producers. At the same time, you have really started to change your songs on a nightly basis. Have you found that any song in specific has really opened up into a live staple?
There’s a song that didn’t make it onto the record but was on the EP called “Two Child One Drop” which is a great song to play with the Dub Trio. They’re really amazing in that song and it showcases some of the great things that they do. The whole beginning section is very dark and very moody and then there are these three big transitions in the song that just totally put the song over the top. The Trio is really great at transitioning into different moments very cleanly. So that was one that was [written in the studio] but turned out to be really good for the live show.
In terms of your next studio album, do you plan to work with different writers and producers again or create more of a band album?
I’ve been working with this producer Kojak, who is sort of a Top 40 guy. He has a dance-type thing going on, and he’s really cool. We did that song “Miracles” together and we’ve recorded a few months ago and released for Chanukah. I’m working now with H from the Glitch Mob who worked with me on the last record. I’ll also be writing some songs with Aaron and Rob. That’s pretty much it.
And then you’ll work these songs out with Dub Trio?
Yeah exactly. We all get together, and we will write the music together.
Do you plan on taking Cloud Runner on the road?
Oh, yeah. These shows are sort of like a trial. And we’ll see how that goes and see if it’s something that we’re going to pursue.
Finally, you recently announced some acoustic shows, which is an interesting format since you don’t play an instrument. What have those performances been like from your perspective?
It’s great. I work with three guitar players for these shows: Aaron, Dave Holmes or Adam Weinberg. All three of them have very different kind of ways of playing. Aaron brings all his pedals and Adam is just stroking the acoustic—he is a very classically-trained guitar player who does a lot of finger-picking and has no pedals. Dave is from the Dub Trio and brings some of that vibe. The acoustic songs are cool for me because it’s just the guitar and my voice so I can really do things that are a lot more subtle with my voice that don’t normally get picked up when there’s a full band. It is really focused and centered around the voice and we do a whole improvisation thing where I beatbox and then the guitar player plays and we kind of improvise from there. I can also really focus on my beat boxing. We will also do these Q & As where people will ask me questions from the crowd and can relate a little more personally then at my shows where I’m kind of so focused on the music that sometimes I’m not relating so much. Here, I’m just sitting and chatting with whoever is in the audience.
