Photos by Craig Taraszki
I catch Karl Denson during some rare downtime spent at his San Diego home. The veteran road warrior gets to sleep in his own bed for a brief period before heading off for the final leg of Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe’s current 2009 tour. The dates are in support of Brother’s Keeper, the group’s first full-length release in seven years. Although he has found that listeners are most receptive to a funk foundation incorporated into the material, Denson explores a more expansive sonic palette on Brother’s Keeper. The tracks present a nod to classic ’60 soul as well as reggae, while the lyrics present his most outspoken views yet of the need for a positive connection among earth’s inhabitants. Besides using musicians from 2002’s The Bridge, the album also offers guest appearances by Marc Ford and Meshell Ndegeochello.
While the discussion focuses on his current endeavor, it easily swings to his other bands – Greyboy Allstars and Karl Denson Trio – as well as his onetime bandleader Lenny Kravitz.
JPG: Let’s go straight to the obvious. The last thing you did was the Karl Denson Trio release. The last Tiny Universe album was The Bridge back in 2002. So, why a Tiny Universe album? Why not work under the moniker Karl Denson or something else?
KD: Well, Tiny Universe is definitely a certain thing. I like having all the different projects and them having their own identity. It’s a little confusing for retailers, but for the audience it’s a cool thing to be able to try and wrap their head around something a little more intricate than their normal fare.
JPG: When you say Tiny Universe is a certain type of thing, how would you describe it versus say Karl Denson Trio?
KD: Tiny Universe is a full-blown thing. It’s all the bells and whistles. You’ve got the horn section, lots of vocals, big instrumentation. Tiny Universe is my, it’s kind of the mother of everything.
JPG: I like that, the foundation of it all. Now, I see that you have Brian Jordan, Zak Najor and David Veith working on Brother’s Keeper. All three worked on the last full Tiny Universe album. You also have a number of guests appearing on the new album. So, who will you be bringing out on the road?
KD: I go back to the normal configuration for the tour. Tiny Universe is a six piece, two horns, bass, drums, guitar and keys.
JPG: When you’re playing with Greyboy Allstars it must be a different sensation, possibly even relaxing, because it’s not your band to lead. You can just kick back and play and not have to be responsible. How is it as a bandleader with Tiny Universe?
KD: You know what? It’s both rewarding and taxing. The ability to have it be completely my vision is really a blast and when we’re roaring through a set of music that was mostly my compositions, that’s really what I do it for. There’s also the idea of making everybody understand what I’m trying to get out of the music, what my vision is from the band standpoint, and knowing when to back off, when to just let the guys do what they do and accept it for what it is or when you need to put a little more pressure on ‘em to get what you want out of it. Then, however the ticket sales are, I deal with that up and down, too. You roll into a venue, if you see a hundred people or three hundred people you know what the night looks like.
JPG: As far as the lineup itself, are Brian, Zak and David involved in the touring?
KD: Not Zak. Zak’s actually kind of semi-retired. He’s the greatest drummer on earth and can’t figure out what he should do with it, and I pull him out of retirement every couple years to make a record with me.
JPG: Back to the idea of the music being your vision. Tell me musically, lyrically, even conceptually, the overall vision for Brother’s Keeper.
KD: Brother’s Keeper, what I really wanted out of it was a soul record. I wanted to get as close as making a soul record as I could. Tunes like “Shake It Out,” kind of got a little Motown thing. And the song “Brother’s Keeper” is trying to get that Sound of Philadelphia vibe out of it. For me, it was trying to make a good solid, soulful record that was easy to listen to. The Bridge is a great record. It’s a little more challenging, maybe, than this one is, just as far as listening. That was my intention with this record; something that was really short and sweet and only 48 minutes and you could listen to it in one sitting and want to turn it back on.
JPG: Also, there’s the idea of I am my Brother’s Keeper throughout much of it. Was that something that grew over the years or was it that came through stronger when you developed the vision of the album?
KD: If you listen to my other records, there’s always that sentiment inflected in there at some point. So this record turned out to be a little bit more on that side, I think, because of [the title track] “Brother’s Keeper.” That was a long process figuring out the lyrics on that one. I finally got the lyrics right on that one. Then “Mighty Rebel,” which turned out to be kind of a survival of the species. And then I got that great Jon Foreman tune, “Drums of War.” So, it just took shape as I was working on the record. Me and Jon were working on lyrics and he played that song for me, and I was like, ‘I’ve got to do that song.’ It was one of those things. My wife had mentioned doing that Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes tune, “Wake Up Everybody,” which was another song of that sort. I almost did that on the record. I guess that’s how I feel about the world.
JPG: Funny that you brought it up because I was going to mention that as far as guests on the album, collaborating on songwriting with Switchfoot’s Jon Foreman seems like…and I can’t think of anything else, an odd choice. How did you guys get together?
KD: A few years ago when we were working on the Tiny Universe EP (2006’s Once You’re There), the producer on that record, Charlie Peacock, mentioned the fact that he became aware of me because of working with Switchfoot. And the first thing that they had played for him when he met up with them was Greyboy Allstars. So I knew Jon was a fan, and I was a fan of Switchfoot. Through Charlie I got in touch with him. We started talking and we had a nice rapport. I went and saw a couple of shows, sat in a couple times…and the main thing, I’ve been looking for years was a lyricist, somebody to write lyrics for me. I have tons of music that still doesn’t have lyrics. I thought if I could get somebody strong at writing lyrics, I could really move a lot of my stuff along. So Jon and I started sitting down together and it was just a natural thing. He’s strong at what he does and I’m strong at what I do. I can take the good parts of what he’s giving me and let the other stuff go, and it works vice versa. I know from the stuff that he gives me, what works for me and he’s the same way. Certain lyrics, ‘I couldn’t really pull that one off, maybe you can. Take that thing.’ It was just a really great. We’ve become really good friends. I finally feel like I’ve got a real writing partner. Hopefully.
JPG: As far as songwriting itself, are you able to compartmentalize groups as you start to write something, thinking that something is for Tiny Universe, something else is for the Greyboy Allstars or do you just write it and work with what you have on hand each time out?
KD: By the time I’ve got a sketch of it, I know which band it will work better for — Tiny Universe versus Greyboy Allstars. With the instrumental stuff, that’s a little harder. Generally, I kinda know what works with the Tiny Universe and what stuff the Greyboy Allstars like. Greyboy Allstars thing is more about just picking something that tastes good to them. If it doesn’t taste good, with that band being a democracy, they’ll just spit it out.
JPG: That’s rough but good in a way.
KD: You know what? That aspect of the Greyboy Allstars has been probably the best thing for me in the last 15 years; the fact that I have guys that have good taste and are very direct about what they like, so it’s created an ability for me to really know, ‘Okay, this is good in that situation and this isn’t good in that situation.’ It’s allowed me to really compartmentalize, as you’ve said, different things and know what works where.
JPG: As far as other collaborations, I read about you playing with Leftover Salmon. Explain to me how that situation came about and how you worked yourself into fitting in with that musical format?
KD: You know, it’s all music. Leftover Salmon, those guys are really good at what they do. So, I tried to have enough respect for it to jump in there and give them what they need as opposed to what I want. I think that’s the trick. And the cool thing. I actually love playing bluegrass because it’s kinda like jazz. It’s kinda like playing swing, but you want to be a lot more staccato about it. It’s got some of the same flavors. There’s a lot of stuff that I work on as a bebop player that I never get to pull off with the Tiny Universe or the Greyboy Allstars because it doesn’t necessarily fit in there directly. And there are definitely places with Leftover Salmon where I’d be like, ‘Wow! I can finally play this lick. I can really work on this thing.’ Last time we did it which was this past summer, I was like, ‘Man, this would be really fun to go out and do this for a month. Get fluid at what I’m hearing over their music.’
JPG: So just like your time with Leftover Salmon, was that pull to play in a different manner, a reason for starting the Karl Denson Trio?
KD: Yes, definitely. I could just play saxophone for awhile. I just wanted to get away from carrying around a huge entourage and get down to something smaller and just have some fun and play my horn.
JPG: And you don’t have to bother with lyrics either.
KD: Exactly. Singing is a whole other beast, man. I used to laugh at Lenny Kravitz because he wouldn’t party with us after the show at times. Once I started singing a lot, I realized why he was so delicate sometimes.
JPG: For yourself as a singer as well as a sax player, were you always both or did you fall into the role of singer?
KD: I always wrote vocal songs. I always sang enough to know how to do it, but it wasn’t until the Greyboy Allstars where I actually had to do it on a regular basis. And that was kind of by default since nobody else would do it. But I really saw the need, as far as a balanced show, that somebody had to sing. So, I started doing it and eventually I started liking it and thought, ‘Okay, I’d like to do a little more of this.’ And that was kind of the reason for Tiny Universe. The Allstars only wanted so much singing and they really didn’t want to push the envelope with that stuff.
JPG: In terms of your plans, other than upcoming leg of the tour, what’s next?
KD: We’ve got Jam Cruise coming up. We’re just trying to push this record right now and get people aware of the fact that we’re back and doing our thing. Lots going on. Starting to book tours, some stuff, tentatively, going on with Galactic next year. It’s fun. We’re having a good time.
JPG: As far as the Jam Cruise, I haven’t gotten over my fear of being in the middle of the sea with no land in sight. So, tell me since you’re a veteran of them, what did you expect and what did you find?
KD: I’m kind of a live-in-the-now type of person so I don’t get ahead of myself with expectations. But it’s turned out to be one of the funnest things I do every year now. I’ve been on every single one and every year they get better. And last year was completely off the chain. So, I force myself not to get ahead of myself this year because I really can’t imagine this year being as good or better than last year. But you never know. It just might do it. It’s pretty insane. It’s a really fun thing to do.
That’s kind of the beauty of the Cruise in a way too is how far afield we go. A couple years we were down off the coast of the Dominican Republic. And just thinking about a world map and going, ‘Man, we are way the heck out here.’ That was a really cool moment because it’s this really beautiful place but you’re nowhere close to home. It’s kind of insane.
