John Kadlecik’s been involved in Grateful Dead circles long enough now that the “noise” doesn’t faze him. Furthur may be defunct, and he’s not in the lineup for the Grateful Dead 50th anniversary celebration in Chicago, but that’s hardly kept him from remaining a regular Phil Lesh friend and writing original music to play solo or with one of his Washington DC-area bands.
The newest project on Kadlecik’s radar is Golden Gate Wingmen, which combines him with former Furthur bandmates Jay Lane and Jeff Chimenti and adds Reed Mathis to hold down the bass and some of the vocal duties. The band’s initial run of gigs last fall went so well that they played New Year’s in Colorado and are set for a brief California tour that kicks off this Saturday, January 30. (He’s also back with Phil for a run of shows at Terrapin Crossroads Feb. 13-15, in a lineup including Stanley Jordan.)
Here John K checks in on the Wingmen, Trey Anastasio in the Jerry role, and staying positive in the face of so much “Fake Jerry” Internet trolling.
So tell me about Golden Gate Wingmen. Our audience is aware of your associations with Jay, Jeff and Reed so it’s not exactly a surprising lineup. But how did this band come together?
John Kadlecik: Well, let’s see. I was looking to do a little solo tour as an experiment back in November, and the first one was going to be at Terrapin Crossroads. They put me in the Grate Room and then it was, well, I need to get a band together. It turned out that Jeff, Jay and Reed were all available and they were more or less the first people I thought to ask. So we got together.
I came up with the name and everyone liked it. I didn’t know if it would be anything more than one show, but it was encouraging that other people were into it. We got an offer to do a couple of shows over New Year’s in Colorado, and it happened the guys were available then too. So then we thought, let’s do a California run.
Do you anticipate more Golden Gate Wingmen shows?
We won’t add to this run, no. But everyone seems pretty enthusiastic about doing this and playing as many shows as we can. Hopefully we’ll have more soon. As we’ve done a few of these I think we’ll start to bring in songs from everybody else, too.
From the setlists so far it seems like you’ve focused on your material as well as the expected stuff from the Dead and Jerry catalogs so that’s exciting to hear. Do you think you’ll write new original music with this band, too?
Hopefully, yeah, as much as Jeff, Jay and Reed are interested. As for me, I’ve really been champing at the bit to get a project going with multiple writers. At first it made sense for me to do some sort of Jerry Garcia or Dead related thing with the various people in that scene, and then I wrote a bunch of fresh stuff last year that felt right. As soon as it looked like this had legs, we also got Reed singing some lead vocals. I’m kind of hoping we can keep expanding this.
You’ve played with Jeff and Jay in Furthur and other contexts. How long have you known Reed?
Actually a long time. It was really rare for Dark Star Orchestra to take on an opening act let alone one that went on the road with us, but Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey did that with us over the whole leg of a tour. I want to say that was 2000, 2001 or so. They were this bunch of young kids from Tulsa, it was very fun. We did one particularly memorable mashup with them joining the whole band for a drums and space segment at All Good that year.
I remember the last time we chatted, about a year ago, you had just come out of that prolific writing period. It sounds like you’re starting to find homes for these new songs.
Yeah, we’ll see. Some of those songs aren’t all that appropriate for this project, some art. Some will remain studio songs, some are songs I might give to other people. I’m open to collaborative writing too, and I’ve been working with a particular writer.
Indi Riverflow, if I recall?
Yes, that’s right. But yeah, I had this huge burst this time last year. Again, it’s been a matter of making space for it and figuring out what gets my attention.
Where do the John K Band and the Mystery Cats fit in presently?
The John K Band as a specific entity might be kind of rolling up the carpet for a while. It was always intended to be a hometown project, and it wasn’t something that we were going to make a touring project, though it did get some attention. There’s actually another band called the John K Band that’s some side project from a British band, I think, so there’s already a little confusion there. And I think some people who don’t know what it is might link it to the lead singer of Steppenwolf [John Kay], that’s come up before.
So I think in some way that band turned into the DC Mystery Cats. We were already doing a generous amount of Jerry Garcia Band songs, but if it’s something that plays a few shows a year in the DC area, it stays fun and it’s not something where we have to worry about tour logistics. It won’t hit the road. We’ll keep it hot in DC.
I’ve done solo shows, too, really my whole career, although not necessarily as tours. It’s all about how I like being alone on tour and figuring out how to get myself on planes and off of planes. [Golden Gate Wingmen] went OK. I didn’t lose money, and I’m not going to retire on it or anything but it went OK. But it’s just different when I’m making the schedules and figuring out the logistics.
But it sounds like Jay, Jeff and Reed are all bought in to it.
So far, so good. We’ll figure out the next step. I know Reed’s lined up to do some stuff with Billy [Kreutzmann].
And you’ve also kept room to play with Phil Lesh & Friends. Do you anticipate continuing to do that?
It seems likely. I can’t speak for Phil, but he’s always nice to me.
Shifting gears I want to ask you about the Grateful Dead 50th. I read your Facebook comment, of course, after the lineup was revealed. Why did you feel compelled to make a public comment specific to that?
Oh, just ‘cause there’s a lot of noise going on. I’ve also made it kind of a minor mission to demonstrate the compatibility of those scenes. I mean I’ve been covering Phish in bands, here and there, a song or two, going all the way back to 1992, so this idea that there’s incompatibility between the Dead and Phish is…I mean, I saw Jerry 70 times, a lot of those with the Jerry Garcia Band, and I saw Phish many times between ‘91 and ‘96.
You can tell who’s capable of what. I know what Trey’s got and I know he can achieve liftoff. And it’s funny, people will say this stuff like, oh, he only plays Jerry licks. I don’t hear any Jerry licks from Trey except for once in a blue moon, and it’s the lick that Jerry himself stole from Joe Pass. I’m very sure Trey can achieve liftoff.
Do you know Trey?
I’ve met him a few times. I know Jon and Mike a little better.
You mentioned “the noise.” When you’ve played in these circles with the original Dead members and invite scrutiny from the Dead crowd, I guess you have to develop a thick skin.
Yes! [laughs]
How do you deal with all that chatter? Do you just ignore it?
Oh, you realize it’s all part of the game. I think Jerry knew that, too. What’s unfortunate is that there is this small cadre of true Internet haters. They’re not Deadheads playing the role of critical fans, they’re just true haters — trolls in the old sense of trolling for bites.
So it doesn’t get to you?
JK: I’ve tried not to let it get to me. Sometimes when people make up complete bullshit about me, it’s a little tough not to get in there and want to do something about it. But in part it’s like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight, and also bringing Phil and Bob and the people I’ve played with down to that level, too. In the end, even if I’ve made my point I end up looking like I care too much.
Well, hey, any bullshit rumors you’d care to debunk?
Nope! [Laughs]
Were you involved at all in the discussions for the 50th anniversary shows?
Well, I don’t know. My name might have come up but I wasn’t involved in any negotiations or anything so I have no idea. I get this sense that they actually weren’t sure they’d be able to sell out Soldier Field. And that’s really funny to me.
Will you be attending the Soldier Field shows?
I sure hope so.
You’ve played in a lot of Phil & Friends lineups. Do any stand out as particularly strong, or even worth revisiting?
There have been a number of musicians who have been great to play with. I think my favorite group dynamic, though, was this past fall with Rob Barraco and Dan Lebowitz and Joe [Russo]. When that core group fired off, I thought that was pretty happening just from a groove sense. There have been a lot; I love playing with Jeff Chimenti. But somehow that particular lineup stands out.
You mentioned Barraco. Are you in touch at all with your other former DSO bandmates?
Oh, a smattering. Here and there. Things may be starting to thaw.
