When asked what his next project will be, Joe Jackson states that he doesn’t have a clue. Rather than planning ahead, the chameleon-like singer songwriter stays aware of his muse’s arrival and then follows that process through to completion.
By never remaining creatively stagnant Jackson’s defied expectations and thrilled fans. His earliest releases were based on punk rock’s energy, and included the timeless paean to unrequited love, “Is She Really Going Out With Him?” He then turned his back on angry young man music and made albums over the next 33 years that moved from genre to genre — reggae, jump blues, sophisticated pop, film scores and symphonies – while adapting each style towards his distinct musical personality.
His artistic instincts have now led him to record a tribute to one of his musical heroes, the legendary composer, arranger, pianist and bandleader Duke Ellington. On The Duke Jackson interprets 15 Ellington numbers with the aid of ?uestlove (The Roots), Christian McBride, Regina Carter, Sharon Jones, Iggy Pop, Steve Vai, Vinnie Zummo, Zuco 103 and his longtime percussionist Sue Hadjopoulos.
Carter and Hadjopoulos also join him as part of his backing band during his current world tour. “We’re going to be playing most of the album live. Not all of it. There’s a couple of tracks that for various reasons don’t really work, but we’ve made most of it work really well, I think. So, we’re going to be doing that and a whole lot of my old songs as well.”
It should be no surprise that Jackson and his sextet will reveal further dimensions of the material on The Duke live. His attention to detail and inventive arrangements have made past concerts memorable experiences.
During our conversation I related two moments that stood out above the rest — a solo piano version of “Eleanor Rigby” I witnessed during his Night and Day II tour that had no business being as jaw-dropping as it was and a dressing down of late-arriving concertgoers who caused havoc in the fifth row center just as a the evening’s fourth song began. The justifiably irritated Jackson finished with, “And don’t bother asking for “Is She Really Going Out With Him?” We already played that.” And the sold out crowd cheered.
When I recalled the last incident Jackson laughs in amazement at what he had done. His demeanor may be relaxed at this time but for such a serious musician it wouldn’t be a surprise if such an occurrence happens again.
JPG: The Duke, Duke Ellington: obviously people have heard his music and there’s a superficial enjoyment of something that’s catchy and has a strong melody and that sort of thing, but for yourself was there a moment where his music got inside on a much deeper level and what did it do to you?
JJ: I don’t remember. I really don’t remember the first time I became aware of Duke Ellington. I must have been 14, 15, 16 years old, something like that; just kind of exploring the world of music, frantically and obsessively, all kinds of music. I think later as a student, when I was 19 or so, I got more interested, especially in his later music and then studying his scores. A lot later, I started to appreciate his early music as well. It’s been a drawn-out process. I can’t really say there was some great moment of revelation. It gradually grew on me just how great, how important Ellington was and is.
I’ve been asked by a few people to sum up in one sentence why Duke Ellington is great, why he’s important. And I think what’s great about him is exactly the fact that you can’t do that. There are some people like Shakespeare or Beethoven or Picasso or whoever it is; you can’t just come up why they’re great. You could spend a whole lifetime exploring their work and that is what makes it great. There are just people like that.
JPG: I’m really glad that I was sent the CD with your essay about Duke Ellington and your reaction to him, as well as, your approach to making the album. I thought it was a nice, honest assessment including your criticism of his lyrics. (slight laugh from Jackson) As far as tackling Ellington’s music after all these years, was it a matter that, maybe, consciously or subconsciously you had to kind of apprentice on the catalogue of Louis Jordan and Cab Calloway and make albums such as Jumpin’ Jive and Body and Soul and all kinds of other stuff before you finally got to this point?
JJ: Oh, I haven’t thought of it like that. I don’t see any parallels really between Jumpin’ Jive and this record. Jumpin’ Jive was just something that…I did a little musical vacation and to have a bit of fun playing the music rather badly in a very amateurish English sort of way but having fun with it.
I don’t think I did anything very clever with the arrangements. The Duke project is much more of a labor of love, much more personal, really much more of a Joe Jackson album.
JPG: When I bring those other albums up I mean as far as working through the material from the ‘30s and ‘40s, the Swing Era, and bringing in those horn arrangements, even though you don’t use horns on The Duke. Having said that brings up this why tackle the music of Duke Ellington now, rather than doing it years ago?
JJ: I don’t know. It beats me. Creative process, I think. I don’t know why I wrote songs on Rain four years ago as opposed to 15 years ago.
I guess there’s some process going on of touring and learning but I’m a very intuitive type of artist. I don’t really_ plan_ things ahead or do things for…I don’t do anything for a kind of ideological reason. It’s actually quite difficult for me to answer these “Why” questions. I always cringe a bit when someone says, “Why did you do this?” I always want to say, “Why not?” There’s no reason.
JPG: That would make for a quick interview.
JJ: So, why now? I really don’t know. Maybe that’s how long it took to grow somewhere in the back of my mind.
JPG: I noticed that you covered Duke Ellington’s “Moon Indigo” here and on your previous Summer in the City album.
JJ: Yeah. That’s right.
JPG: On that number, did you go back to the original Ellington and then work from there or did you work from the trio format of “Moon Indigo” from Summer in the City ?
JJ: I took my own earlier version as a starting point. I did go back and listen to the Ellington version, and one thing I wanted to do that was not on the trio version was the intro and outro, which is very unusual. At the time it was recorded it was a strikingly original combination of three instruments playing in close harmony. It’s really difficult. I wanted to get the same sort of effect but not using horns. So, in my arrangement it’s violin, harmonica and accordion. And I think it works really nicely.
JPG: Bringing something you’ve done in the past to this project, when I was listening to “Caravan” on The Duke I was hearing a taste from your original composition, “Chinatown” (from 1982’s Night and Day album). Is that just me or did “Chinatown” have an influence from Ellington going through it (sings the string part that’s similar to the string section of “Caravan.”)
JJ: I really hadn’t thought of the connection but I see what you mean. It’s just an odd, angular, exotic little melody in “Caravan.” And I think, maybe, “Chinatown,” is a similar kind of thing. It has a little bit of a Middle Eastern flavor but it isn’t really. It’s kind of looking at it in a way without really using those specific scales or whatever.
JPG: Alright. So, I’m not as insane as I thought.
JJ: I don’t think you are. Anybody makes different connections.
JPG: Thank you. I guess score one for me.
JJ: It’s not a competition. (laughs)
JPG: (laughs) With your version of “It Don’t Mean A Thing” it’s interesting that out of all the numbers on there it’s the one where it really goes out there with vocal samples and you and Iggy trading vocals…Was it a matter of letting it all go and thinking that this has to be the last number on the album because it might throw too much at people if it’s earlier in the tracking?
JJ: There’s a helluva a lot going on in “Caravan,” too. The way it turned out I felt like it was a natural finale.
JPG: That brings us to the musicians on “The Duke.” First off and this is just an aside, is it true what I read that your longtime bassist Graham Maby lost his wife earlier this year?
JJ: Yes
JPG: Oh, that’s sad. That’s really too bad. Is that why he didn’t play on The Duke ?
JJ: That was one reason, but actually that was not the only reason because I really wanted to use acoustic bass on some of the songs. He doesn’t play acoustic bass so that’s how I ended up working with Christian McBride.
JPG: I see. I guess it’s a matter of always finding you working with Graham on record and onstage…
JJ: Yeah, it’s very weird to be rehearsing right now without him. Touring without him…but I’ve got a great guy to replace him who plays electric and acoustic and tuba: Jesse Murphy [John Scofield, Brazilian Girls] . He’s really good and I’m pretty happy but it’s a shame.
JPG: Hopefully, he’s doing okay after that tragedy, which is the more important thing. It’s a real interesting combination of musicians on the album – ?uestlove, Christian McBride and Regina Carter who have a jazz past but Sharon Jones and Steve Vai, who is normally thought of as a Heavy Metal guitarist. How did you bring this grouping together?
JJ: Well, some of them were people that I had in mind right from the beginning. On The Duke there were three guys I wanted to work with for awhile, Zuco 103, and we started off the recording with them in the studio and after that…
JPG: Who?
JJ: Zuco 103, this great band that no one in the states seems to have heard of… (slight laugh)
JPG: …Until now.
JJ: We collaborated on two of the tracks on the record – “Perdido” and “It Don’t Mean a Thing.” Then, there’s their singer who does the vocals in Portuguese on “Perdido” and is absolutely brilliant. The other guys in the band are Dutch and German.
So, I really wanted to work with them. I also wanted to do work with [Iranian singer] Sussan Deyhim on “Caravan.” We talked about this a long time ago. I really wanted to do “Caravan” and I had an arrangement in mind but, like a lot of these Ellington songs, the lyrics are so cheesy that they actually kind of spoil it. (slight laugh) I started grappling with this problem and I came up with the idea of maybe having them sung in different languages, which at least would make them exotic unless you’re Iranian, I guess. But Sussan loved the idea of singing “Caravan” in Farsi. And I think she did a great job as well. So, that was an idea that goes right back to the beginning.
Regina was also someone that I wanted to work with for a long time. And then the other people, it started to take shape after that. Ahmir (?uestlove) was interested. When I found out that him and Christian McBride had actually worked together, were old friends and had made an album together, then I thought, “Oh my God. I’ve got to put these two guys together.” It just went a step at a time. I’d worked with Steve Vai once before as well. He’s a great guy, a phenomenal musician. I mean it’s really weird that people think that’s he’s only heavy metal when he played with Frank Zappa.
But the idea, overall really was to do what Ellington did, which was to feature very interesting charismatic individuals who are stars in their own right. Many of the people in Ellington’s band were bigger stars in their own right and he was able to share the spotlight with these people. But at the same time be in charge, be the guy who determined the Big Picture. That’s one of the ways that I’ve been inspired by Ellington in my own work. It’s one way to do that, especially in the case of this record.
JPG: Now someone with your schooled/educated background, when you go into something like this, do you actually chart out what you would want Regina or Christian to do or do you just discuss it, maybe play it on the piano and show them what you want?
JJ: It depends on the musician. Christian and Regina and Steve Vai and (guitarist) Vinnie Zummo all have charts. The strings have charts. The arrangements were pretty specific. It was very much worked out before we got into the studio. There’s also some…I mean, you can tell by listening to it, I think, where there are passages that are left to run free for solos.
JPG: When I was preparing for this and looking over all your work it surprised me that you’ve never really been cornered by record companies where you have to make Look Sharp or Night and Day again and again…
JJ: What are they going to do? They can’t force you. They can’t put a gun to my head and force me to make a certain type of record. (slight laugh)
JPG: I’m thinking of your diverse career and then someone like Neil Young, where he was sued by his record company because he didn’t make what they thought should be…
JJ: Really?
JPG: Yes. During the early ‘80s he was making albums that were electronic and rockabilly rather than the electric or country rock stuff the record company expected.
JJ: Well, it could be because he owed them a lot of money. I don’t know. I’ve always tried to make sure that I don’t owe a lot of money to record companies because that gives them more power. I’d rather not take a big advance. That’s part of it. That’s just a business decision. Maybe it wasn’t that much fun for them trying to get him to do what they wanted him to do.
It’s better to leave me alone. It’s been a long time since a record company had very much input anyway. These days, record companies, there’s like, what, two really big ones left? The rest, they’re all kind of independent. They just don’t have anywhere near the power that they had in any way including the power over the artist. People are making their own records at home and releasing them on the internet now. I don’t see why anyone needs to do what a record company tells them to.
