Pat Sansone began working with John Stirratt a few years before he ever became a part of the bassist’s other project, a little band called Wilco. While that group has undergone its fair share of musical evolution over the past decade or so, the same can also be said for Sansone and Stirratt’s other gig, The Autumn Defense. The duo may play second-fiddle to the formidable songwriting prowess of Jeff Tweedy when Wilco is in session, but their appropriately titled fifth studio album, Fifth, once again proves that the pair are perfectly capable of crafting some elegant tunes of their own. We caught up with Sansone recently to discuss the band’s new album, balancing successful music projects, the future of Wilco and more.
The new Autumn Defense have a new new album, Fifth. Does this release explore familiar territory or are you guys going into something different with this one?
I think it’s kind of a combination of both. It’s definitely us; it sounds like us. It’s coming from a similar point of inspiration as everything else that we do as The Autumn Defense. But there was a conscious effort this time where we started making a record to get our live band in the studio; get everybody in the studio together at one time and start the record with some live performances at the tracking stage. We’ve done that before on the other records, but this time we wanted it to be this specific group of musicians that we’ve been working with live for the last several years.
Is that something that you normally do? Or is that something you first did for this album?
No we’ve produced our own records really since the beginning. This record is really the first to have a co-producer and his name is Josh Shapera. He and I have a studio together in Chicago called the Nixon Administration and we’ve been working on some projects together—producing other artists—and he co-produced this record. But yeah, we’ve pretty much handled the production duties on our own records since the beginning.
What are some of the challenges in doing that? Does it make the whole process a little more difficult?
Well, it was really helpful to have him on this because, when I have assumed production duties on a project that I’m also playing in, it does get a little tricky because you sort of have to split your head in two. You have to simultaneously be looking at the big picture and making sure things are going in a certain way. But then you have to also allow yourself to hopefully be spontaneous and be in the moment and just be a performer. So it was really good this time around to have a co-producer so that, when we were in the room making music, I could turn off that micromanaging part of my brain and allow myself to play and perform. I think it really helped the flow of the record.
You said earlier that you guys brought your touring band into the studio to help you record this. Did that make the songwriting process any different? Do they help with the writing at all?
Yeah, in a way. John and I would bring the songs—already completely written and formed—to the sessions, and they’re very quick studies and they know the vibe at this point so they’re able to sort of jump right in. it’s very natural and very quick. But there were a few songs that were really just sort of musical ideas that were brought to the band. You know, we were really just jamming in the studio, but those jam sessions really did help turn those ideas into actual songs. There’s a song called “Calling Your Name” on the record that was really just an instrumental idea that our drummer, Greg, once he started playing drums to it, that was what really helped turn it into a song. So that really did help bring some of our unformed ideas to life.
Jonathan Wilson played on your last album. Did you guys bring any special guests in for this one?
We had a couple of friends from Chicago come and play and do a couple of very small cameos. Our friends Nick Broste and Max Crawford played horns on a couple of tunes. But for the most part it was just us; it was just the band. It was very self-contained. We made it almost completely in our own studio, and it was done entirely in Chicago. So it was very much a family affair.
As a creative outlet, how does the Autumn Defense differ, for you and John, from Wilco?
Well, it’s a very different thing where, in the Autumn Defense, these are really our songs. That’s the biggest difference; we are the songwriters. Wilco is an outlet for the songwriting of Jeff [Tweedy] and we are there to help facilitate that and support that. We definitely enjoy that role, but The Autumn Defense is really an opportunity to express ourselves and to sing our own songs. We love to sing, that’s really what The Autumn Defense is based on. It’s our enjoyment of writing together and singing together.
Wilco’s got to be a pretty time consuming thing on its own. Where do you all find the time to balance these projects?
It’s really just a question of finding the time whenever it’s there. Wilco had a super busy couple of years, but there is downtime now and again and what ends up happening is that downtime becomes work time. We just fill the calendar with this other work. The band has been around now since really 1999—the first release was in 2000 and this is our fifth album—so we haven’t been able to put out as many records as we would if we weren’t in another band as well, but we just take advantage of whatever time we do have and do this work.
Well you’ve been working with John in the Autumn Defense since even before you were with Wilco. How did you end up getting pulled into Wilco?
Because of the Autumn Defense, really. I ended up becoming part of the extended Wilco family, I guess. I was working on things up at the loft back during the time when there wasn’t really a studio there; John was the only member for a few years that had a recording set up at the loft.. We did some of the work on our second record, Circle, there. Jeff was around, he played guitar on a couple songs on Circle. So I was kind of around when Jeff decided to change up the lineup back after A Ghost is Born. I was just kind of already part of the team in a way. So I just kind of got brought in, I guess.
Are you going to be focusing more on the newer material during your shows? Or is it going to be old and new material?
It’s old and new. We haven’t really gotten the chance to tour a whole lot for the last five years or so. We did a small amount of touring for the last record on the West Coast, but not much. So we are gonna be playing selections from the new record but we also want to fit in some of the older material as well. It’s interesting now that we have five albums of material we actually have to make real decisions about what we put in the set. That’s kind of a new experience for us.
Lastly, is there any word of a forthcoming Wilco album? I know you guys have been on the road a lot lately.
We’re kind of on hiatus at the moment. It’s been a really busy couple of years there, so it’s time for everyone to do their own thing for a minute. We’ll be having some discussions soon about all that, but for right now it’s break time.
