Never mind his landmark production work with Bob Dylan for right now. (Or with Brian Eno, U2, Peter Gabriel, Willie Nelson, the Neville Brothers … look it up; the list goes on.) Forget about the Grammys, Junos, and all the awards he’s won. Even the couldn’t-escape-it-if-you-tried thunder of his trademark “sonics” as applied to Neil Young’s recent Le Noise – don’t worry about it right now.
Today’s subject is Daniel Lanois the bandleader; Daniel Lanois the guitarist/vocalist; Daniel Lanois focusing all his “studio rat” energies on the self-titled effort from his band Black Dub. Over the course of the album’s 11 tracks, Lanois and company (drummer Brian Blade, bassist Daryl Johnson, and vocalist/multi-instrumentalist Trixie Whitley) manage to somehow blur the lines between reggae, soul, gospel, blues, funk, and rock. And they blur it well.
You might expect anyone who’s lived the life that Daniel Lanois has to have a bit of an ego, but during our recent conversation, he was nothing but friendly, warm, and – yes – humble. When I mention to Daniel that I’d enjoyed his new memoir Soul Mining: A Musical Life, he replies with a little chuckle: “Oh, man – thank you. I’m so nervous about that, you know?” I’d forgotten that it was being released the day we were talking; he apparently hadn’t – nor did he take a warm reception for granted.
Ask me to sum up Daniel Lanois in 50 words or less? I can do it in one: passion.
BR: You’ve had a pretty boring year so far – it’s probably nice for you to make human contact.
DL: (laughs) It is nice to finally be out of the studio!
BR: Before we talk about Black Dub – both band and the album – I’d like to take a minute to get rootsy.
DL: Sounds like fun. (laughs)
BR: How about talking a little about the influence of reggae music – and more importantly, the studio work of pioneers like Lee “Scratch” Perry – on your sound over the years … and the sound of Black Dub.
DL: Well, first of all, I’ve been hanging my hat in Jamaica for about 15 years now. I rented a cottage from Chris Blackwell for much of that time; then two years ago I bought my own place in Negril. This all started when I went there to work with Jimmy Cliff years ago – I fell in love with the culture.
The more I looked into the music of Jamaica, I realized that much of what I loved came out of the studios and not necessarily from the street. That beautiful sound that we all know and love – that reggae sound: those adventurous blends, repeat echoes and all that – came from people’s studios. They had very little equipment to use – Lee “Scratch” Perry would’ve been one of them – and I thought, “This is so encouraging for a studio rat like me!” (laughter)
It really has given me a lot of encouragement to take responsibility for a form; to carry on with my experiments in the studio and to make my own discoveries. I’ve invented this new dub system that I don’t think anyone else is doing, so I feel a little like Scratch myself. (laughs) Or on a good day, anyway. (laughter)
The dubs that I make are not so much “spin” dubs as they are extractions – samples that I pull out of the multi-track and fiddle around with. I’ll maybe add a little octave or maybe some other harmonics and then I spin those back into the relevant positions in the songs so that it makes sense with the chords and so on. It’s a lot of trial and error – 19 times out of 20 will be terrible, but that one time will be genius … and I’ll erase everything else that’s crap. (laughter)
So that’s kind of what it’s all about. I love Jamaica; we’ll make the next Black Dub record there.
BR: Sounds like a good time to talk about the line-up of the band. Let’s start with Brian Blade on drums.
DL: I met Brian in New Orleans years ago when he was studying with Mr. [Ellis] Marsalis there. I was taking a walk with Iggy Pop, who was making a record in the studio I had in New Orleans at the time. We were outside the doorway of a café when I heard this incredible drum sound. There was this kid in there just ripping it up on drums. I got his number and have kept in touch with him since.
Brian is simply one of the heavy-duty drummers of our time. He still tours with Wayne Shorter and he has his own jazz band. He’s a genius who can play any style.
BR: How about bassist Daryl Johnson?
DL: I’ve worked with Daryl a lot over the years. He’s a genius, as well. Along with his bass playing, Daryl’s a great singer. I should tell you that he’s not traveling with us right now – unfortunately, he’s got a drug problem and he’s back in L.A. dealing with all that goes with it. I feel bad even talking about it, but let the truth be known, you know?
BR: I’ll do whatever you want me to, Daniel – should I even mention that that’s why he’s not around right now?
DL: Yeah, that’s okay by me – it’s both the truth and a real shame. Things will be going great and then something happens and we don’t see Daryl for a while. People have to decide for themselves when they’re going to go sober; you can’t just wave your arms – at a certain point, they have to tackle it on their own.
BR: I’m sorry to hear that. If knowing what this music means to the people hearing it could help Daryl in any way …
DL: Maybe so, maybe so.
BR: I know you have a string of Black Dub shows coming up. Just to let folks know, who will be on bass?
DL: Jim Wilson – a great singer and bass player in his own right. We’re lucky to have him – and at the same time, we all hope Daryl can rejoin us.
BR: How about Trixie Whitley?
DL: She’s terrific, isn’t she? She’s just a kid; she’s only 22 but I tell you, she’s a deep, deep soul. She grew up listening to the right music. Her dad was a musician friend of mine – Chris Whitley, who unfortunately died five years ago.
I’ve been a friend of the family for a while; back when Chris recorded his first record in my studio, Trixie was just three years old, you know? (laughs) A couple years back, I bumped into Trixie and her mother in Belgium. She told me she was singing and writing songs – and when I heard her, I thought, “Wow! She’s got something special.” And I’d had it in the back of my mind that I might want to try putting a band together with someone who could front it vocally. When I heard Trixie, I knew she was the one.
BR: Along with her powerhouse vocals, she plays keys, guitar, and drums, right?
DL: Yeah – she’s a great drummer. She has a great bass drum foot.
BR: Now about the basic construction of the Black Dub album – how much was cut live and how much is, as you call it, “studio rat” work?
DL: It’s a mix. “Surely”, for instance was cut live off the floor. That’s the last song I wrote – a live vocal with no overdubs. It was very reassuring to know we could still do one like that.
Other songs are much more complex. “Slow Baby” is an instrumental; much more studio rat behavior on my part. (laughs) I built that whole thing myself – I’d had it on the shelf for a while.
“Love Lives” is a track that I recorded years ago in Mexico – never finished it, but always loved it. I finally completed it for Black Dub.
Sometimes you can plan them and knock ‘em out; other times you have to crack them. It’s really a compositional process. Part of me wishes I could make a record, not play it for anyone, go out on tour, and then go back in and record it again. (laughter)
BR: That’s right; go out and live with the thing – let it get to know itself.
DL: Things always have more fire live – I know that; everybody knows that; but it’s hard to pull it off these days. But you know something? If I hit on something that has a vibe, has some magic to it, that’s enough for us to go on.
BR: I oftentimes listen to review albums on the road. I’ll have a note pad on my knee and scrawl out initial impressions. In the time we have left, how about if I just dole out some of my first-blush notes on the Black Dub album?
DL: (laughs) Sure – go for it.
BR: Here we go then. “Ring The Alarm” – My notes read: “Brian Blade is just scary good.” (laughter) He does so much with just the most basic of drum sets, doesn’t he?
DL: Yeah – it’s incredible. Just so you know, that drum take is from Massey Hall in Toronto; it’s actually a live performance and it had so much fire in it that I decided to build the entire cut on that drum track.
BR: I also scribbled out: “Deep and black midway through; flash of Hendrixian colors.” That would be in response to when everything drops out and there’s just that squall of joyous guitar sound.
DL: That guitar part is also live from that Massey Hall show. There were so many sounds from that night I felt I could never repeat, so I figured, “Accept it as a gift, man – put it on the record.” (laughter)
The original song is a Jamaican classic by Tenor Saw – are you familiar with him?
BR: No – I’m ashamed to admit I’m not. But I’ll tell my wife; Christmas is coming …
DL: (laughs) There you go. Tell your wife “Tenor” as in “tenor sax” and “Saw” like “sawing wood” – and the song is “Ring The Alarm”. (laughter)
I always loved that track – it’s one of my favorite Jamaican songs ever. So I stumbled upon this guitar sound – a euphoric, kind of rising guitar sound (imitates the guitar part) – and I thought, “Wow – let me marry that with Tenor Saw’s “Ring The Alarm”. That’s how that cut came to be – and that’s probably our strongest Jamaican connection on the Black Dub record.
BR: I’m only going to allow myself one gearhead question, as I could easily blow the 20 minutes we have talking about equipment …
DL: So could I. (laughter)
BR: Well, you mentioned that guitar sound – it’s your fault. (laughter) I’ve seen the Black Dub YouTubes – what is that sweet, sweet Les Paul you play on the album? And did it have the Bigsby tremolo on it when you got it?
DL: Ahh. (laughs) That’s a 1953 Goldtop Les Paul. Larry Cragg – he does Neil Young’s guitars – installed the Tune-O-Matic bridge and the Bigsby for me. I wanted to replace the back pickup with a humbucker, too, but he said, “I’m not allowing it.” (laughter)
BR: He’s a good man to listen to. Here’s another one – “Silverado”: “mix of techno beat/from-the-heart lyrics”
DL: (laughs) “Silverado” is a mixture of what I like to refer to as “flesh and machine.” There’s a cool beat box in there with real drums on top – it’s a non-stop desire of mine to mix the two.
You’re right: the song has been around for a while and I’ve just never released it until now. That was Trixie: she just loved the imagery and comradery in it.
BR: “Sing” – “Willie Dixon does gospel.”
DL: (laughs) It does sound like one of Willie Dixon’s bass lines, doesn’t it? (imitates the bass and laughs) It’s like a tuba, you know? Daryl played that, of course. He’s from New Orleans and a lot of those New Orleans bass lines came from tubas. It sounds great live, by the way. I’m real happy – singing is still one of the great ultimate therapies.
BR: “Canaan” – “Cross between ‘The Maker’ and ‘Somewhere Down The Crazy River’” – an old Robbie Robertson tune that you produced.
DL: Ohh – right, right. (laughs)
BR: I think it was the vignettes that got me – great snapshots.
DL: Yeah, I like the idea of it painting pictures: a mother changing her baby’s diaper in the front seat of a Rambler waiting for her gambler … she remembers what Mama used to say: “How far am I from Canaan?” You know – when will my ship come in? When will clarity come? It’s a soul-searching song – you could just keep on writing verses over and over and the chorus would still make sense for anyone who’s looking for an answer to a question.
BR: For sure – for sure. Daniel, I know you’re on the run. I appreciate the time you’ve given us today.
DL: I really appreciate the attention you’ve given to my work, man.
BR: I think it’s fair to say that for all you’ve accomplished, all the music you’ve created, you’re still moving ahead – and you’re still having fun.
DL: Absolutely – having fun, surrounded by people that I care for, and trying to make the best music possible. My appetite has not simmered at all; I want to keep on trying to make adventurous, innovative music.
The balance seems to be between the studio and the stage, you know? Both are important in my life, so this is it – Black Dub.
BR: Great – keep it going, Daniel.
DL: Thanks, brother – I appreciate it.
