It is truly astonishing to try and wrap your mind around the number of irons that Cyro Baptista has in the fire. Baptista, who will turn sixty this year, just released Caym, The Book of Angles Volume 17, a collaboration between John Zorn and Banquet of the Spirits. He is also wrapping up no less than two albums with his other outfit, Beat The Donkey, just finished a tour with Banquet of the Spirits, is presiding over the start up of the Sound of Community, a outreach organization with the goal of bringing music to underserved populations and, finally, he recently acquired a 30 acre piece of land in his native Brazil with the goal of establishing a musical center in the rain forest.
For a man who is so forward in his thinking and approach to music, Baptista had no problem honoring the past and our recent discussion touched on everything from the sounds of the rain forest, building your own instrument, recording for Nickelodeon and exactly just what a ngoni is.
So let’s starts with Caym and then work around from there. I’m interested in how the collaboration works between Zorn, who wrote the Book of Angles songbook, and the performers. How does each individual piece get shaped?
Zorn just gave us the songs he thought would be appropriate. About how John Zorn shapes his musical pieces, you got to ask him, because it is a mystery for all of us how he does it. It just like the pizzas that he makes, each one is a surprise with different shapes and tastes!
Is there a give and take between Zorn and the musicians or, are the pieces set in stone?
John Zorn just handed us the compositions, and we had total freedom in terms of transformation – to add or subtract elements to any of the songs. That’s how our album Caym was conceived. The son of the serpent, and the serpent is the symbol of life. Otherwise the album would end up sounding just like any of the projects that he has, like Masada, Bar Kokhba Sextet, etc
You have been collaborating with Zorn for so long, how has that relationship evolved over the years?
Probably, right now, I am the musician who is working the longest with Zorn, about to complete 30 years, I am not sure maybe a little less. We are good friends and, definitely, we are brothers, and, like Caym (the namesake for our album) and Abel we already killed each other many times over the years and we keep coming back stronger and stronger. Maybe, that is the invisible concept behind this album “the archetype of fratricide” a concept that persists in numerous references and retellings, through medieval art and Shakespearean works up to present day fiction.
When you were approached to do the album did you know instantly that this would be for the Banquet of the Spirits?
Tim Keiper, Brian Marsella and Shanir Blumenkranz are, in one way or another, involved with the “Planet Zorn,” making the decision about the Banquet of the Spirits execute this album inevitable
That’s funny, when I try to describe Zorn to uninitiated friends I say “You’ve probably listened to many of the people in his orbit just not the man himself.” I was really impressed with both the playing and arranging of Shanir Bluemenkranz. Can you tell us about how it was decided that he would arrange the album and about his contribution?
There is only one Shanir Blumenkranz and he came up with many of the concepts and forms for all these compositions, We incorporated the input from Tim Keiper, Brian Marsella, myself and tempered by Justin Bias, who patiently engineered and edited the whole album.
Justin also added an amazing visual dimension to the music. For each track on the album, he created a separate video that incorporates footage from the rehearsal and recording process. Each tune on the album is so unique – it’s kind of a glimpse into the creative process and the inspiration behind each of the tracks.
Probably better you just watch them for yourself (see above).
Tim orchestrated the rhythmic landscape of this entire album and also played ngoni. Brian’s solos are deep stories that kept us together sitting around his fire. Believe me this record is not one of those “made in two days” – we worked our ass off from beginning to end! If you listen something there, probably is not what you think! Everything is in its place and nowhere at the same time. Caym is the result of a true anthropophagic effort.
I was struck by how the album felt concise and expansive all at once, almost like the 6th draft of an essay. At the same time it didn’t feel like the pieces were overdubbed a bit which, I would think, they had to be. What did it take to achieve this? Careful editing?
Many, many studio session under my belt…. lots of experience!
Can you describe some of the more exotic instruments, such as ngoni or oud for the uninitiated?
I’m probably not the person to ask about those – probably would be better to ask those guys. But the ngoni is a really amazing instrument. The one Tim plays he got in Mali while playing there. The instrument is made of a piece of bamboo and a huge calabash. It’s actually the same gourd that I use on my berimbau – but they grow it ALOT bigger in Africa than Brazli! Then he takes fishing line for the strings and the sound is just amazing!!
You have collaborated with so many artists over the years, how has that shaped you as a band leader?
I am so grateful to have played with tremendous musicians, and had the opportunity to extract from these experiences the ingredients that I put it in a blender to make this juice that keeps me alive. But before being a musician I am a human being, and that is what shapes and sharps.
Has there been anyone in particular who changed your perception of the role of a bandleader?
Nana Vasconcelos was very generous friend and mentor, and gave me many tools and opened for me a door with infinite possibilities to develop my perception. Also Herbie Hancock and John Zorn were a tremendous source of encouragement and guidance so I could go on with my own projects and also, they showed me, that music can be something else than just entertainment. They taught me that it’s ok if you like my music, but if you don’t like it – that’s ok too.
We know a lot about the myriad collaborations you’ve had since you came to the United States but I am wondering how you got your start as a percussionist in Brazil?
Brazil is a paradise for a percussionist to grow, to discover sounds, to develop the spirit of the rhythm. I was touched by this spirit very early in my life, but I was also very involved also with theater, photography, cinema and other things that I can’t (and don’t want to) tell you. When you are young, everything is a matter of life and death, and at that time I did a pact, engraved on marble, that I sold my heart to the music forever and ever…
Was there a vibrant music scene in Brazil at that point?
I started to understand music at the same time (50’s) that João Gilberto and Tom Jobim were assembling Bossa Nova, and during my teens Caetano Veloso, Chico Buarque and Mutantes turned everything upside down. At that time (60’s) Brazil was under dictatorship and heavy censorship, so composers and lyricists got to be very ingenious to surpass that condition. Amazing music.
Did that repression lead to your talent for building your own instruments?
I’m not sure if it was the repression or not. But I really believe that everyone can build their own instruments. I do so many workshops these days around the world and I really try to get that point across to people.
I was born near the rainforest – so for me, growing up, I really wanted to emulate the sounds that were around me. The birds, the wind, the sound of the water, the animals. But now, I’ve been living in NYC for so long – so now the sounds of my environment are car horns, the subway, the clanking of the buildings.
Someone who lives in the dessert would have a whole different set of sounds and so on…
It’s all about experimentation! I spend a lot of time at Home Depot and Cabela’s – actually, I’m looking for a sponsorship!
My favorite random discovery of last year was a Novos Baianos album ( Acabou Chorare ) that a friend gave me. When I got it I was struck by the fact that while it seemed really timeless, it was recorded in 1968. Were they an influence?
“Acabou Chorare” is definitely amongst my top 5 ever, I love every song on that album until today.
I understand you spent some time on a commune they founded. Was that experience as wild as it sounds?
We were neighbors for a while – turned into friends. At that time (70’s), I just came back from living 3 years in Amsterdam and we shared the same “gangsters hippies” principles. Later in NY I end up playing with some of them on different occasions.
And now things have come full circle as one of the members sons is the drummer for Beat The Donkey, how did that come to be?
Yes, Gil Oliveira, an amazing drummer with a vast knowledge of so many different types of music coincidentally is the son of Paulinho Boca de Cantor one of my favorite singers of Novos Baianos.
I wouldn’t be doing my duty as a father of two little boys if I didn’t ask you about your work with Nickelodeon. What show do you compose for and how did you get involved with it?
Piper O’Possum at Nick Jr. was this little cartoon that would show between shows. I did hundreds of those, and I loved [them], the problem was, all the restrictions about sounds that would scare or traumatize the children that was kind of lame because they sell so much advertising of products that can really damage and traumatize your kid.
*That’s a shame and is kind of counterintuitive on their part. We try to expose our kids to everything, top 40, rock, jazz, AND the cartoons. Lately, “Matafiel” has been an addition to our nightly dance party rotation. Was there pressure from Nickelodeon to “dumb down” the music you recorded for Piper O’Possum? *
I don’t know if “dumb down” is the right way to put it. Just restrictions on the sounds. That’s so great to hear that your son loves Matafiel! We have actually been developing a children’s show with Beat The Donkey that has been so much fun!! The kids bring a different vibrancy! You should bring your sons the next time we do a show in the area! They’ll love it!
Tell us about your project with Kenny Wollesen, Justin Bias and Eleonora Alberto – The Sound of Community. How did you come up with the idea and how can people get involved?
Yes!! That is the Super Team and I am so lucky to work with this guys and we are crazy excited about it. The Sound of Community is a project of true inclusion, where underserved members of the community would collaborate together. Each participant will be made to feel that music isn’t something only created on big stages and fancy recording studios – but rather can be a part of their everyday life as a ritual and a means of bringing people together.
The team is currently working with several groups like: individuals with physical and/or developmental disabilities, senior ladies, children from the Newark, NJ school system and homeless. The aim here is to join those on the edge of society with musicians of various backgrounds. Everything from hip hop to classical. As well as with choreographers, sound and light technicians to end up with a major performance bringing all this elements together. At the moment we are looking for a venue or performing arts center that will partner with us – the place where we can show and perform all this work.
I really encourage people to get involved in any way possible and to look into what we’re doing – the website is here.
What’s next for Cyro Baptista?
Besides two Beat The Donkey albums that we are finishing – there is another with album I’m doing with Tim Keiper, cellist Vicent Segal and bassist Ira Coleman.
I’ve also been doing a lot of recording on albums and movie soundtracks in my studio here. It’s so great nowadays – people can send me files and I can record with all of my instruments in one place instead of packing cases and cases and bringing them to a studio. I’m going to be doing more and more of this. Also, as always, some touring – you can check on my website for upcoming dates.
I am also really looking forward to this land that we got in the south of Bahia in Brazil – 30 acres that we have a project to build a center for music in the middle of the rain forest.
