The Dude of Life, also known as Steve Pollak , first collaborated with Trey Anastasio while the two were in high school. The Dude wrote lyrics for a number of Phish’s beloved songs, including “Fluffhead,” “Run Like an Antelope” and “Dinner and a Movie.” However, Pollak’s creative output did not stop at collaborating with Phish. He has continued to perform and write his own original music and perform with his own band, as well as Fluid Druids. In addition, The Dude has collaborated with Fluid Druids member Charlie de Saint Phalle partnered to create music for LIGHTSCAPES, an art project in Westchester.
Callingon his way back from the Department of Motor Vehicles, The Dude of Lifediscusses his band’s upcoming shows, working with de Saint Phalle and Fluid Druids,his reaction to Trey Anastasio getting stuck on New Year’s Eve and more.
You’re at the DMVright now?
Well, we traded in our Mazda before we left forMexico [to attend Phish’s Riviera Maya destination event]; we had to turn inthe plates. There’s a long, long-ass line.
The stereotypeholds true I suppose.
What you realize is, people think of hell as beingfire and brimstone—it’s really not that. It’s a never-ending line at theDepartment of Motor Vehicles and then you finally get to where you’re supposedto be and they say, “Sorry, you’re in the wrong line. You gotta go to anotherline.”
Yep, endlessline-waiting. Since you brought up Phish in Mexico, how was it? What did youthink of the shows?
It was absolutely unbelievable, and I’ve been toMexico each of the times Phish has played there. Changing the location to theMoon Palace was a phenomenal move because it was just a superior place in so manyways. The food was better, the transportation was better—it was amazing havingeveryone in one resort rather than spreading out between five or six resorts.It created an amazing sense of unity and fun. The only problem was that therewere so many amazing people I wanted to hang out with, and I didn’t get thechance to spend as much time with people as I would have liked to.
That’s always aproblem at Phish shows—I’m constantly trying to seeeverybody. For someone as connected in that world as yourself, it must be evenmore intense.
You can’t see everybody, but you try. [Laughs]
I’m curious aboutthe rarities and bust-outs that they played, like “Sea and Sand” and “Willin’.”Does someone like yourself know that’s going to happen or are you as surprisedas everyone when it does happen?
Once in a while I will know, but for the most part,I’m surprised as well.
That must be fun,too. Pivoting to the upcoming shows, you and your band were confirmed to playthe TAB after-show in Asbury Park this coming May.
That’s correct.
Over your musicaland artistic career, you’ve played in a lot of variations of bands. How didthis band that you’ve been playing with recently come together? I believe youguys did an afternoon for the MSG run. What do you particularly enjoy aboutplaying with this group?
Well Doug Schneider, Adam Dell, and Parker Reilly were performing in a different band for Halloween [The PartyBox Raiders], and they invited me to sit in. It was so successful that we decided to take it to the next level. I like to say we opened up for Phish at Madison Square Garden—a few blocks away. [Laughs] That was even better; the electricity was flying and everyone had a great time. As Jerry Garcia used to say regarding his neck ties, he couldn’t think of any reason not to do it. Well with this band, I can’t think of any reason not to do it— we’re having so much fun.
In terms of whatthese shows consist of, you guys play a mixture of Phish originals andother covers. You mentioned some newly written material, so in general, whattype of material are you working on?
Yeah! We play Phish songs, some of my originals andsome wonderful vintage covers as well. But most importantly, we’re doing abunch of great originals that haven’t even been recorded yet, and that’s whatI’m really excited about.
How long have youhad these songs written?
It’s varied; some are recent, some are from 10 yearsago, some are from anywhere between.
How often thesedays are you writing new songs?
I write fairly often because my day job is teachingmusic therapy in the Yonkers public schools, where I work with kids who havespecial needs.
I have a friendwho does pretty much the exact same thing out in LA, so I’m interested in thatsort of thing.
I really love these kids I’m working with. I ofteninfuse original music I’ve written into the curriculum; it’s a method I’ve hadtremendous success. What I find is that these kids are the most amazingaudience—and they’re very forgiving too. When I’m playing a song that I’venever played before, if I make mistakes, they are very understanding. It reallyenables me to have a sense of freedom and not feel that I need to hold back.I’m able to explore and get creative and then when things are really flyingmusically, they let me know. But if things aren’t taking off, they alsocommunicate that. It really provides me the building blocks to create somesongs that can stand the test of time.
Have you beencollaborating on songwriting with anyone in particular? Obviously in the past,you’ve collaborated with Trey Anastasio. I also listened to your appearance on Under the Scales and heard a little bitabout your rather recent creative partnership with Tom Marshall. I’m wonderinghow often are those collaborations happening, and how often is it just you onyour own working on material?
Sometimes I collaborate with Trey, and I was justhanging out with Tom in Mexico. We have some phenomenal songs that we’vewritten together. We are looking to take those to another level as well. On topof that, for many years I’ve worked very closely with the Fluid Druids. We’vewritten many songs, so if you add all those components together, I’ve got a lotof songs that I want to get into the studio for sure.
I think a lot offans of the greater Phish community were interested in hearing about you andTom’s relationship. You two have been some of Trey’s main collaborators, butyou didn’t really become close with each other until 2009’s Festival 8 inIndio, Calif. How did that creative partnership begin? Was it instant, like,“Oh, we gotta write together,” or was it over time that you realized, “Oh, wewant to write together”?
In the past, we were always very friendly to eachother but maybe on some level we saw each other with a little bit of acompetitive spirit. But by the time Indio came along and the band had been onhiatus, we got together and got drunk together. We realized we had so manyconnections, so many similar friends, so many things in common and we just hadthe best time together. That kind of was the spark, and we’ve been dear friendsever since.
In terms ofwriting with Trey, some of the more recent songs you’ve written together are,“Show of Life,” “The Architect” and “Can’t Always Listen” Of course, you alsowrote lyrics for some classics like “Fluffhead.” How did the process of writingwith Trey—if at all—change over thecourse of your relationship with him?
In some ways it has changed drastically, and inother ways it’s almost exactly the same. To expand on that, when Trey and I gettogether… going back to high school, we got together asbuddies, and in college just as friends hanging out, having fun with it. Sothat aspect of it totally remains the same. When we’re in there, that sense ofenthusiasm and fun and trying to create something that can stand the test oftime holds true. But the difference is, now, when I’m working with Trey, he’sgot an amazing studio right on hand. Whether it’s GarageBand or whateverhi-tech recording devices we’re using, everything is at our fingertips. You canhave the choice of thousands of different drum tracks, thousands of differentguitar sounds, thousands of bass sounds, whatever you want. So we can actuallybuild songs just the two of us as if the whole band was in the room.
In more recentyears, Phish has obviously jumped from where they were in the ‘90s to a moreculturally ubiquitous status. What is it like for someone like yourself to seePhish playing your songs, such as “Crimes of the Mind?”
It’s always amazing to hear a song like “Crimes ofthe Mind” because the way they’re playing it these days has never soundedbetter. It’s like seeing your baby all grown up and getting that big job.That’s a bad example. [Laughs]
You still see itas your baby, but it’s being played at the MGM Grand in front of thousands ofrabid fans instead of in a small room or even on your own with your band.
The quality of the band has never been better, andthe band has never played it better. So it’s always exciting to see them dothose songs these days. In my opinion, they’re at the top of their game.
I’m hopeful thatthe next time they bust out “Crimes of the Mind,” they’ll have you sing it,because I think that’s the way it’s gotta be. But that’s just my personalopinion.
I’m just as thrilled when they play it without me,too. I love it when they play it, any way, fashion or form.
Moving on to FluidDruids, when was it that you first started to play with them? How did thatcollaboration begin?
Well Charlie De Saint Phalle and I are neighbors; we live about a mileaway from each other. We met each other at a kid’s birthday party of a mutualfriend. We instantly became fast friends. One thing led to another, and he hada studio in his basement, so next thing you know, we’re jamming there all thetime. Daver Coats has been with Fluid Druids since the beginning as well; heand Charlie have known each other since they were eight years old. They hadchemistry that went back to when they were kids. At eight years old, there weretimes when they were throwing rocks at each other, so there’s history.Sometimes that history is really important with music. Look at Phish: Thoseguys have been playing together for decades, and the amount of time thatthey’ve known each other and the brotherhood that they have—it gives the musicits depth. It’s not just cool musicians playing together who don’t know the insand outs of each others’ lives. So basically things took off quickly. There arealso three different drummers that we’ve used, all amazing drummers. MoeHarroche—he’s also been with Charlie and Daver forever—Conrad Aamodt, and JohnMadden. From there we started jamming a lot, andthen we started doing some small gigs. Even when we weren’t doing gigs, we werehaving so much fun at rehearsals. We were making music, and that’s really whatit comes down to, so we kept moving along that trajectory.
While I was prepping for this, I happenedupon the LIGHTSCAPES project that youdid with Charlie. I’m very curious about that. How did that come about?
MikeNatiello was creative director of LIGHTSCAPES,which took place at Croton-on-Hudson. Mike’s been a longtime fan of the bandand is also a dear friend of mine. One thing led to another, and next thing youknow, Charlie and I are doing the music for Lightscapes, which was so much fun.It was so gratifying and it really was an amazing project. After a few years,the funding ran out, so we’re not doing that anymore. But Mike also runs theBlaze, which is very famous, so Charlie and I did some music for the Blaze thisyear.
What is that exactly?
It’sduring Halloween season. Mike and his team have thousands of pumpkins, and theymake all these amazing sculptures—dinosaurs,bridges,you name it. Everything under the sun is made out of thousands of pumpkins—it’s absolutely exquisite. Charlie and I worked on musicfor the Legend of Sleepy Hollow; it was really phenomenal.
Is this instrumental music?
Wemade a loop, it’s a minute or a minute and a half. As people are walkingthrough, they hear the loop.
When you’re writing something like that,how do you approach it differently from writing a full song?
It’sa completely different animal because the people who run the exhibit are askingfor specific things within that minute and a half. So you provide it, but in acreative way.
What are some of the things that they’relooking for?
Forthis Legend of Sleepy Hollow piece, they wanted horse sounds. We had to placethem in the mix properly and get an eerie gallop going. It took some time, butit came out nicely.
You mentioned Jerry Garcia earlier andyou are obviously a longtime Grateful Dead fan. To my knowledge, you’re one ofthe reasons that Trey was exposed to Grateful Dead music. I’m curious how yousee the Grateful Dead scene today. It seems like there’s a Grateful Deadrenaissance of sorts in popular culture, where they’re being appreciated notonly for their music, but for their philosophy and their iconography. What’syour take on that resurgence, as someone who has seen it in many iterations?
TheGrateful Dead created a massive body of work of incredible songs. What I findis when a group has songs of that calibre, those songs can live on. The perfectexample of that is, you have an amazing band like Joe Russo’s Almost Deadselling out Red Rocks, which holds about 9,000 people, doing mostly GratefulDead songs. That’s a testament to the phenomenal songs but also to thephenomenal musicianship of JRAD. They’ve taken those songs to a differentplace. It’s incredibly exciting to see that. And I love Jerry Garcia as much asanyone. In my mind, Jerry Garcia was probably as important of an inventor asAlbert Einstein. Many of his inventions don’t even have names yet, but themethods he used to open up lines of communication and connections and consciousnessis flabbergasting. One day I think people will realize all of the amazingthings that he created. It’s amazing that he died in 1995 and so much of thismusic is still living on in such a huge way.
What people are doing with the GratefulDead’s original music now sort of reminds me of what the Grateful Deadthemselves did with The Great AmericanSongbook or Bob Dylan’s music. They themselves are becoming the thing theyused to build the Dead’s catalogue. People are injecting their catalogues withthe Grateful Dead.
Thereare a lot of young people coming in who are hearing this music for the firsttime. It’s opening the gateways for them as well. In my mind, it’s veryexciting to see all these different variations of all these different GratefulDead bands and jambands carrying on the tradition.
I think it’s very cool to even see bandsthat are not known as jambands embrace the whole vibe of the Dead. RecentlyRelix had Vampire Weekend on the cover, a band you would never associate withthe Dead, but much of the article was about how that band has looked to theDead for inspiration in the way they approach live shows and approachrecording.
TheDead broke a lot of ground; they broke down a lot of walls.
Very true. To pivot back to your ownwork, what’s next for you in terms of your own projects?
Overthe next year or so, I’m really looking forward to going into the studio andrecording 12-15 songs to make a new album. I hesitate to say “album” because,“What’s an album?” [Laughs] Maybe, “body of work” because you can’t even say“CD” anymore.
Will those songs be recorded with thepeople you’re playing with in your band currently, or Fluid Druid people, orare you not sure yet?
Iwould like to record with all of the above.
Maybe even some people from Phish willget in there, like you had in the past.
Yourmouth to God's ears.
I’m trying to will it. We’ll both behoping. Speaking of Phish, I basically ask anybody who is a Phish fan thisquestion. When you attended the New Year’s Eve show in NewYork, as a personal friend of Trey, what was going through your mind whenthe whole platform debacle was occuring? As you mentioned earlier, you’re notalways in on it, but did you know he was stuck?
Iwas very concerned because I saw the look on his face, and I saw the looks onother band members' faces, and that’s a really frightening thing. When Trey wasplaying at the Capitol, I was backstage with him and he was telling me thatwhen he was on the platform, he didn’t even have a harness. The reason beingthat they told him, “You don’t need a harness because this is the Titanic ofplatforms.” In other words, because it was so well built, you don’t even need aharness. All he had was this wire attached around his waist, attached to the platformso he couldn’t walk off the edge. Trey was saying that if he would have fallenoff, the pain would have been excruciating because he was being held by hiswaist. He was describing to me the fear he experienced when the platform—at times when they were trying to work on it, it wouldshift and suddenly tilt. He thought that at one point he was going to have tothrow his guitar in the audience. More importantly, he was scared for his life.
I think everybody in that room wasworried, other than those who were like, “This must be part of the gag,” whichconsidering Phish’s prankster history was not a totally crazy thought. Butsomeone like yourself could see that was not the case. I certainly thought Icould see the distress of the band that was going on, and the uncertainty ofPage and Mike looking up at him with concern.
Themost amazing part of it is that Trey was able to play all the solos and do allthe parts even though he didn’t have a harness. The fact that he was able to dothat and do it with so much grace so that people thought it was a gag, is atestament to what a professional he is. A lot of people would be crying like ababy up there.
Yeah, or just stopped the showimmediately, which I wouldn’t blame anyone for doing. Like you said, not onlywas his own life at stake, but there was a lot of very priceless andone-of-a-kind gear up there. I certainly wouldn’t have thought twice if he waslike, “Guys, I’m stuck up here. We’re going to have to take a break orpotentially stop the show.” But Trey is a true pro and knows that the show mustgo on. I was with a person who had never seen Phish before that night, and shewas blown away by his professionalism that night more than anything else.That’s all she was talking about after, like, “I can’t believe he was willingto keep going.”
Atthe end of the day, there’s now an unofficial new Phish symbol, which shows agreen square suspended above red, blue and yellow ones. That’s the beauty ofbeing a big rock band: You go through a troubling time like that, but you comeout with new iconography.
Any final thoughts?
I just want to elaborate on the band I’m with now: Doug Schneider [drums], Adam Dell [guitar], Charlie de Saint Phalle [bass] and Parker Reilly [keyboards]. It’s a wonderful chemistry we have together and I’m really excited about the music we’re making. There’s a lot of soul in there and we’re having fun; I’m really excited to see where this leads.
