Billy Martin is best known as one-third of jazz-fusion trio Medeski, Martin and Wood. Granted, “jazz-fusion” isn’t necessarily the perfect description of a group whose genre-bending sounds would be equally appropriate in the cafés of Europe and the campsites of the headiest music festivals. “Brass band” probably isn’t the best way to describe Martin’s latest project Wicked Knee either, but it’s a decent starting point. The group—which features Martin (drums), Curtis Fowlkes (trombone), Marcus Rojas (tuba) and Steven Bernstein (trumpet)—just released its debut album Heels Over Head, and the 11 tracks are a bit of a departure from much of Martin’s previous work. We spoke with him recently about Wicked Knee, the new album, MMW’s side-projects and more.
How did Wicked Knee come together and when did the project start to feel like a real band?
I knew it was a real band when we did this quick little session. I asked Steven [Bernstein] to put some brass together to add to this drum DVD. I did this educational DVD called Life on Drums and there was something I wanted to have, like a little thing with horns. It was not a big part of the DVD but rather one little track, and so the guys came over to my place and we just quickly worked on this tune that I wrote called “Muffaletta.” After we did that we hung out [and] it was like ‘this is the band,’ the band that I’ve been talking about. This is it, you know? So that was the inception. That was a couple of years ago. I’ve known all these guys for 20-25 years playing in various projects together, being in the same musical community— the downtown scene in New York.
I know you’ve worked with Steve Bernstein, the trumpet player for Wicked Knee, for a while. How has your relationship developed over the years?
Well, I first met Steven when I joined the Lounge Lizards, John Lurie’s Lounge Lizards, which is kind of like a famous downtown [New York] band. That was back in ’89, I think. Then when I started Medeski, Martin & Wood, I asked him to be part of the horn section on one of our records called It’s a Jungle in Here. I played in some of the bands and projects that he has done; we’ve collaborated on so many things, cartoons, Nickelodeon, children’s shows. We’re actually pretty close.
So tell me about the process of recording the new album, Heels Over Head. What went into that?
Well, it’s the second record to date that we did. The first one was an EP we made the year before. The EP is called Wicked Knee and there are six tunes on there. I just wanted to make that record and get it out. Just to start the process of writing more music and do some touring together. So last year, exactly a year ago, I asked the guys to come upstate where a friend of mine, Danny Blume, has a recording studio in his house. We made a trip up there and I was hoping to record a full record in one day. [Laughs.] It didn’t quite go down that way—technical difficulties.
We ended up getting about half of the music for the record, so I waited about a month or two and then we went into a church in the Upper West Side. I can’t really say what church it is, but it’s one of these places that had a really good sound. We recorded on location at this church, and finished up the process of getting the takes that I needed and experimenting with some other ideas. So I wrote a few tunes on this record. There were a couple that I had written that didn’t quite turn out the way I wanted them to, and everyone else contributed some arrangement or tune that they wrote. It was a longer, slower process than I had anticipated. I thought that we would be able to do it in one day, but it ended up having to be two recording sessions, taking a lot of time on getting the right mixes and performances. Just taking my time with it. I was very happy with the result, though.
The album has a different kind of brass sound—part of it sounds like something that you could hear in a club down in New Orleans, but then it also sounds like it’s coming from more of a modern jazz type of place. How would you describe the album’s style?
I call it ragtime/funk with avant-garde interludes. There’s really no name for it. We’re New York based musicians; we love New Orleans’ tradition; we love all music. My concept with this band is trying to bring in more of that sort of twisted joint, you know? To try to bring in a different slant on it, so I guess you know in a way it’s sort of a New York, downtown slant on a ragtime/funk group.
Most of Heels Over Head is instrumental, but there’s one song in particular with vocals, “99 Percent.” It’s also quite political in that it deals with the Occupy Wall Street protests. What was the thinking behind that song?
Well, originally I wanted to do a version of “Poor Folks,” by Screamin’ Jay Hawkins. I’ve recorded and performed it. Then I thought maybe I’d just get Shelley [Hirsch] to sing “Poor Folks.” Then I realized I should just have her create something on her own and kind of guide her a little bit. Part of the spirit of this band is having good times during bad times, which is obviously a very common New Orleans thing too.
I thought I wanted to have Shelley sort of share a little bit of the woes of the time and put in a little of her personal experience. So I asked her to give me a journal of what she’s going through herself. Then I asked her to make some comments about the band members as they’re soloing. We did about three takes, then I pieced it together, and then it ended up sounding what it sounds like. Her story about being part of the Occupy Wall Street Movement. It turned out that way, so that’s basically the gist of what I wanted to get across— that we’re going through these hard times. It’s sort of blues and this is a contemporary take on it. Shelley is one of my favorites. She’s creative, she can do anything.
At the Occupy Wall Street protests that I went to, a lot of the music that was played was very brass-centric. A lot of the material in Heels Over Head has that same kind of feel, that music of the streets feel. Was that intentional?
The music of the street? Yeah, in a sense. Really what it comes down to for me was I’ve always dreamt of having brass and drums. It wasn’t centered on the idea of second line, street New Orleans stuff. There’s an African thing, there’s a classical thing, using brass and percussion. In a lot of African music that I love there are certain things from central Africa that you hear that almost sounds like brass but it’s actually different instruments that they blow into. Wood instruments, horns of some kind. I’m into the idea of wind, brass, orchestral sound with drumming. But of course this is deeply rooted in the earth and to me street music is my favorite state to be in. I think a lot of great music comes from the street and from the earth. Folk music and traditional sort of indigenous music—there’s a lot of that spirit that I want to capture with drumming and brass.
Let’s talk about Medeski Martin & Wood for a second. You guys recently had your residency at the Blue Note in New York, which featured a lot of special guests. Were there any particular highlights from that run?
Every night was special, so I guess for me the surprise was, well. Marc Ribot is one of my favorite guitarists to play with. Nels Cline played the night before and he really blew me away. So I’ve got to say as far as a big surprise and getting blown away, it was definitely Nels Cline’s night. Part of it is because I don’t play with Nels. I played with him once before. It was a year before at the Blue Note of all places, and it was a completely improvised set with a group that I’ve never played with. We all just got together to do it and it was great. I knew that Nels would be great with MMW but I had no idea how mind blowing it would be, how amazing his rhythm is, his sounds, his orchestration, his use of space. Just incredible. And of course Marc Ribot. The thing is that I’ve known Marc for a long time, so it wasn’t much of a surprise. He still gives me chills up and down my spine and my hair stands up on my skin when he plays. But Nels was the surprise for me.
So Medeski, Martin & Wood have been playing a lot of acoustic shows lately. What inspired this return to the full on acoustic performances? Has it influenced you guys in other projects like Wicked Knee?
Well, it’s been too long we played with acoustic piano and a chamber setting. It’s something that we’ve been longing to do more often. We haven’t had the opportunity. We kind of had to make a point of doing that last fall and now we’re going to do it on the West Coast. For me it’s just like a higher level of music and experience; we can go a lot places. There are a lot of dynamics. We all play differently.
John [Medeski] is an incredible piano player and a lot of people don’t really hear it when we’re playing in an electric setting. It kind of takes a backseat because of the way the electronic, amplified sound of the piano just doesn’t really cut that way. The piano centered, what I consider the chamber music approach, is a very deep experience for me. We can still groove, we’re still MMW. It’s just another approach to how we make music.
In the early days of Medeski, Martin & Wood we had more of a balance going, with acoustic piano, mixed with electronics. Just lots of surprises. John not only plays piano, he also plays these kind of indigenous instruments like the Slovakian Shepard’s flute. [Laughs.] Or some kind of overtone instrument, like the shruti box, which is a type of drone-like instrument. He gets into these other things. He has many other instruments but they’re all acoustic, produced by vibrating strings or wind.
You guys have a lot of projects going on outside of MMW. Chris [Wood] is in his own acoustic band, John is focused on his solo piano work and your brass/drum ensemble. After over two decades of MMW, are you surprised by where your musical paths have taken you?
Yeah, I always am. I’m blown away by everything that we’re doing, where it’s leading us and whom we reach. It’s just amazing. I’m blown away by it.
What else do you have in the works?
The other project that I’m really into right now is this duo with Wil Blades. He plays organ, and we have a record out called Shimmy. Jambands.com did a review. Another project I’m utilizing Medeski, Martin and Wood in is a benefit record that I’m producing for the Master Musicians of Jajouka, which is an ancient Moroccan music group in a remote village near Tangier in Morocco. They have a history of people who have been there—the Rolling Stones, Robert Palmer, the great writer for Rolling Stone magazine. The New York Times wrote about them a lot. Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones recorded them way back and released a record. Anyway, they asked me to put together a record of remixes, so we’ve got this record with Ornette Coleman, Flea, Medeski, Martin and Wood, Marc Ribot, DJ Logic, Mickey Hart, and a few other surprise guests that I’m working on now. The track with Medeski, Martin and Wood and Marc Ribot is really amazing. The record will be coming out in the summer. It’s something to look forward to as far as listening to this track and how we integrated Jajouka music. It’s classic MMW but a really fresh kind of thing we’re doing and Marc Ribot is playing guitar and banjo on it. It’s amazing.
