This is part two of a conversation with Phish lyricist Tom Marshall. Jump over to Relix.com for Part One and then come back here as Marshall discusses his various writing projects, including his collaborations with new generation jambands like the McLovins, his ongoing writing work with Anthony Krizan, and his longtime writing partner, Trey Anastasio, as Phish heads into the studio within the next six months, while Marshall continues to trail blaze his own path through his varied and scenic artistic adventures.
Can you talk about your recent work with Anthony Krizan and the McLovins?
TM: When Trey and I write, it’s for Phish or Trey. That’s kind of it exclusively. When Anthony and I write, it used to be for Amfibian exclusively. Since our last concert in 2008, Amfibian hasn’t been touring at all, and I don’t have any plans to really get the touring machine back on the road. I’m happy not touring. I like recording and writing music, and not so much performing it. Unless I go on stage with Phish, which I do like. (laughter) But then, I’m on for 80 to 120 seconds and I’m done.
There have been a couple of other outlets for music. One is with Sherman Ewing who Trey and I went to school with at Princeton Day School. This is going back a long way. He is a singer/songwriter in New York City, and he just came out with a pretty cool album. He’s a guitar guy, and has a cool band, and knows really, really cool musicians. One of those that he’s known for a long time, separately, from my connection to Anthony, is Anthony. He’ll use Anthony as a co-writer, but also as a guitarist on his album, and actually record in Anthony’s studio unbeknownst to me for many years, and then, we realized we had this connection. Sherman’s most recent album just out is called Single Room Saloon, and I wrote the title track with Anthony and Sherman. We also collaborated on a song on his album, Maryland.
Another outlet is the McLovins, the jamband of high school dudes. Two of them just graduated high school. You’ll no longer be able to say they are just high school guys. I’ve gotten to know Jake [Huffman] pretty well, and Jason [Ott] and Jeffrey [Howard], also, but Jake, through his mom, Carol Huffman, who is also the manager of the McLovins, and we have become friends. She’s a great person. All of a sudden, she asked for a song because they needed a song for their upcoming album. Anthony and I wrote “Cohesive,” and they do a great version of it, and it was a successful project as far as I was concerned. And it was a fun one, and it was also fun to see our music being appreciated and played live and it was fun writing with the guys, too. We did another one called “Subdivision 2,” which isn’t out yet.
Most recently, [Anthony and I] just wrote another great song, and this one wasn’t a collaboration with the boys, but we wrote it for the McLovins, and it’s called “Hesitate.” It’s really good. I think it’ll be perfect for the McLovins.
How did “Hesitate” get written?
TM: This song came about because Jake told me he needed one more song to round out their songs that they’re getting ready for their album. They had enough material, and they wanted one more song, so Anthony and I made a date to record last Wednesday at his studio. I walked in there, again, with no lyrics, but I kind of had this idea from the point of view of someone who is a stage person, and I got it from my brief stint as a performer, but also combined it with Jake’s point of view. It’s like a twist on the idea that on stage, when you’re singing, you’re seeing people nodding and smiling, but when you get off stage, you’re not such a great communicator and people expect you to be the same as the way you were on stage—that kind of vibe. Jake really really identified with it, so it worked out really well and it is a good song for them. It’s a dance one, too; it’s really upbeat; it’s a great song, and I really like it.
Let’s continue on with current events and circle back with some old friends. How does Tom Marshall relate to the whole Phish machine in 2011?
TM: Oh my God, well, first of all, just keeping myself out of it for now. Just from the perspective of a fan in the audience and, by the way, that is what I’ve been doing lately—I don’t go backstage; I don’t go back. I’m out in the audience the whole show, and it’s like turning over a new leaf in a way where I used to go back all the time and schmooze and hang out with the people back there with the all access laminates. I’m completely treating this in a completely different way and loving it, just loving being out in the audience. As someone who has seen many shows—I think David Steinberg, ZZYZX, has helped me count, and I’m in the 220, 230 region of number of shows, which might be surprisingly small for some people, but it’s a big number—I really think that Phish is in a great, great place right now—musically and, especially, mentally, which is everything.
Do you feel you are in that place now, too? Like, maybe the writing is working really well for you, so you’ll up your writing time from one to two hours per day? And, do you feel you can still get that excitement from both forms of your writing—the songwriting and the long form fiction?
TM: Oh, that’s an interesting question. I don’t really think about it in that way. Right now, the way it is working with me and Trey, which is so great, is that I know that we’ve been talking about getting together, but we’ve been writing apart a lot lately. He and I both know that we’re so incredibly productive when we are together as opposed to trying to write a song over the phone. I know that I’ve been stockpiling. (laughs) I’ve been getting songs ready in preparation because if I come really prepared—and by that, I mean that I show up with a sheath of possibly at least 20, not complete lyrics and songs, but 20 good beginnings of songs, and in there, some will be complete in my mind, and then Trey will take and mix and match. Trey is always prepared musically. He has easily 20 ideas floating around in his head, and that also gives us an easy way to get started.
The magic happens on the second day after a couple of songs have been recorded that we
came prepared with, and then, the fun part starts. That’s when we venture into uncharted territory, and that’s when the pure collaboration exists between us, and we’re able to write songs that come from the ether, (laughs) as we call it, where we pull a song that wasn’t there five minutes ago, and suddenly, realize that it was there. That’s the magic.
But, back to your question, that’s what I am preparing for now. I know Trey and I are going to do a two- to three-day songwriting session. As for the other writing that I am doing right now just for myself, I have a goal in mind and I’m going to keep that to myself right now. It’s a book project, and I’m just plodding along and I’m really having fun. I’ve tried a few book things in the past, and I’ve tried to collaborate with books, but this one, I’m realizing I can’t really collaborate. I can’t. I’ve tried. I really did. I brought other people in on this project, and, when it comes right down to it, it’s my idea and I’ve got to just develop it myself. Realizing that and realizing that everything I do musically is collaboration is sort of night and day. There are two huge and different and separate projects, but I do tackle them both, religiously, every day, at least a little, at least an hour. They are intertwined and, possibly, the song “Steam” is proof that they’re intertwined, but they are separate and they are fun.
I’m not sure that I answered the question properly about Phish right now. I’ve got to say, and I think I touched on it by saying that, mentally, they are really great, but I did go backstage at Great Woods, and I saw all four members for the first time in a really long time. I got to sit down and have some nice words with Fishman and Page and Mike. I really do want to emphasize that there is something special happening. Like, for example, Fishman practicing so much. I told him that I can tell because his drumming is just amazing. And Page and Mike, similarly, and Trey—I know how much work he is doing. I wanted them to know how much I can tell how great a time they are having on stage. And they really appreciated that. It’s just sort of palpable —and this wasn’t always the case, Randy—there is only good energy back there now and among the four of them. It is really an amazing thing that they are able to get here through a dark cloud that descended upon them. The hint of the cloud started as early as 1999, but it got really dark around there in 2004.
Well, we’ve known each other for a while, but you seem remarkably healthy, focused, and balanced yourself these days, so it is such a pleasure to speak with you.
TM: Thank you, Randy, and I think you would know because you’ve seen me not so healthy and focused and balanced (laughs). I really do. I feel like we’re on top of a beautiful Vermont mountain, looking down at the beautiful trees and opportunities abound ahead of us.
