Photo by Norman Sands
As one of the leading contenders for the title of “Hardest Working Man in Show Business,” Stanton Moore continues to fill up his playing card with a variety of projects, which are both stimulating to him as a continually evolving artist and drummer, and fascinating to the musician and the casual fan alike. His latest project, Groove Alchemy is a how-to, ground-up guide to developing and honing one’s improvisational skills through a careful study of the funk drum masters. With focused determination, Moore catalogues and illustrates the specific skills of James Brown drummers Jabo Starks and Clyde Stubblefield, along with the Meters’ Zigaboo Modeliste. The quadruple-format multimedia release includes an intriguing 151-page instructional book, a three-hour historical film study of the relationship between walking the slow steps of the process, before one runs through the improv wilderness, a CD with a trio featuring keyboardist Robert Walter, and guitarist Will Bernard, along with Moore on his Gretsch drum kit, and an mp3 disc, which contains all of the book’s lessons in a portable iPod motif.
The modern drum master is also busy with a myriad of other projects, including gigs with Garage A Trois, Frequinox, The Drummers Cometh (a Zigaboo Modeliste-led project), and, of course, his stints as a producer (Anders Osborne’s new record), a bandleader fronting his trio, and as a founding member of the explosive jazz/funk/jamband, Galactic. As always, Moore is hard-working, and ever-diligent about honing and perfecting his craft, and continues to be a fine mentor, teacher, and scholar of the art of drumming. Jambands.com caught up with Moore while on the road to his home in New Orleans to…you guessed it…rehearse, and then play with various configurations at JazzFest.
RR: Let’s discuss your project with a look at the connections of specific drummers, and why a drummer of any experience needs to understand the roots and history of funk as displayed in the DVD, Groove Alchemy.
SM: With any kind of style of music that you want to approach, it’s always beneficial to study what the masters have done, and study what’s come before. The more that you know about that, the better off you’re going to be. In studying groove drumming, those things, and the drumming of those drummers—if you can understand that, and you can make that stuff feel authentic, and feel good, well, then, it’s going to be that much easier to understand a whole plethora of things. That was some of the most challenging stuff, and also the most fun, and most really relevant. If you can tackle all the James Brown and the Meters’ stuff, and understand it, and understand where you’re coming from, then you’re going to be able to play a whole lot of other stuff. And a lot of other stuff can be easier for you, too. It is kind of like jumping into the deep end of the pool. Also, digesting a lot of that stuff is to your advantage, so your skills will be honed, and a lot of other things will be easily understandable.
RR: What was fascinating for me about the DVD was when I picked it up, and read that it was three hours long, I thought, “Well, how’s Stanton going to pull that off? Three hours of sitting at the drums, playing, and then talking about playing?” But the linear thread was grounded in the roots of your thesis right from the beginning, and you told this amazing story, leading all the way through to the end.
SM: I worked on the book for almost five years, so when it came time to do the DVD, I had all my ideas very together and clear. There was a lot of preparation that went into that—exactly what we were going to cover. I couldn’t cover the whole book. There’s too much material. We had to focus on particular aspects, and hone it and edit it down a little bit to make a DVD with a little bit less information than the book. It’s presented in a way because some people don’t read music, which is fine. Some people like to learn by checking out the book, and checking out the DVD. I like that. I like reading stuff that helps you understand it. I like watching someone demonstrate it. It just helps having those two different approaches, and helps crystallize the information being presented.
And fans who are not necessarily drummers have the record, as well. Everything that I demonstrate, and lead up to, I show all of those—early funk, and the history and roots of it, and I show how it developed into a lot of the classic stuff that we all love—the James Brown and Meters’ stuff—but, how to then take that, develop it into new grooves, and maybe, put your own spin on it. Once I developed my own ideas, then we went in, and developed them with the trio. The record is the culmination of all that. That is why people who are not necessarily drummers can check it out. I’m really happy with the record.
RR: In the DVD, one sees how the drums can be used in a more prominent way, as well as a rhythmic force, adding more sonic colors. From your perspective, are you ever thinking of the drums as the lead instrument, pushing the rhythm forward?
SM: Sometimes, yeah. Realistically, a lot of times, I’m playing drums from the notion that the ensemble—the drums, organ, and guitar—are three equal parts. We’re all contributing equal amounts to what is going on. That’s why I like playing with the trio. It gives me room to really interact with the band, and really be expressive. It’s almost like driving a small sports car, as opposed to driving a Mack truck. Playing in Galactic is like driving a big truck, which is a lot of fun. Playing with the trio is like driving a smaller car, a sports car, so you can make tighter turns that make sense.
So, you know, as far as being a lead instrument, it allows me to intersperse things, and comment on things, and interact with the other musicians in a way that there’s more space there to do that to shape the music. I guess approach it at certain times as a lead instrument, but really interacting with the guys. It’s almost like we’re all equal parts. I like to at least envision it that way. Sometimes, I’ll sit in the back. Sometimes, I’ll be in the forefront a little bit. It just depends. Sometimes, when someone is soloing in a certain part, it is almost like we are soloing together. You’ve got to be really tasteful with that. You’ve got to be careful with that, but it’s almost approaching it with a jazz mentality where I’m interacting with the guys, not just sitting in the background, but we’re interacting when we’re improvising together. You should do that in the solo, as well, and not just be sitting in the background.
RR: On that note, could you elaborate upon the concept touched upon in the book, DVD, and executed on the record of playing in-between the cracks?
SM: Yeah, absolutely. What that is all about is playing with a feel that’s not too straight, and it’s not too swing.
RR: Historically, between the playing styles of James Brown’s two drummers, Jabo Starks and Clyde Stubblefield, right?
SM: Yeah. Each drummer has their own way of doing this. Clyde Stubblefield plays a little bit straighter. Jabo Starks, in general, plays a little bit more on the swing spectrum. Zigaboo Modeliste [of the Meters] definitely plays in-between there. But they’re all in-between, but different drummers—and on different songs, too—apply things differently. If you try to sit down and play one of these grooves, and you’re not getting the right phrasing, the right amount of in-between straight playing, it won’t sound as authentic as what’s happening. Now, you know, that’s interesting because you can take things, and you can maybe swing it more, straighten it out a little more, maybe play it at a different tempo, and maybe make it into a different thing.
All of these guys did this very naturally and very organically because they all grew up listening to music that had a swing pulse. All these guys grew up listening to Big Band music of the 30s and 40s, and all the early rhythm and blues, jump blues, early rock ‘n’ roll—all of those things leading up to the mid- to late-50s—were all swung. And not really until the late 50s and early 60s did things start to straighten out a little bit. Once these guys—Jabo and Clyde in ’66 and ’67 started playing with James Brown, and then Zigaboo in ’69—started to play straight, they had been hearing swung music all their life. So when they started to straighten things out, they still had a little bit of the lilt in it, a little bit of swing left in it.
Now that we’ve lived through a period where things have been straightened out, we have to readdress that a little bit. It happened very naturally for those guys. But for us, we’ve had things into our ears that have been really straightened out. We need to readdress that, and that’s where I’ve come up with little things to work on to free us up from playing things just one way. Listen with your ears, and adjust what you’re physically doing on drums, so you’re swinging something a little bit more, or swinging something a little bit less, depending on the situation. And, then, you can adjust it to make it fit, musically, into what you’re actually going for. If you’re not aware of that, you could be playing something too swing, and it might not sound as good as it can.
RR: Exactly. How critical is it for a drummer to practice at a slow and precise pace?
SM: I think it’s really critical, especially if you want to refine what you’re doing. If you
want to be really accomplished drumset player, you really work out all the cobwebs by learning how to play something really slowly at first. As you gradually bring it up to speed, those cobwebs are kept out of the picture. But if you’re trying to play something without really understanding it in a slow tempo, it can be really raw, and maybe, too raw. Certain rawness is really essential if you’re playing a song, but if it’s too raw, it can be a disadvantage. It’s important to practice slowly, and then bring it up to speed. You’ll just learn things so much more quickly if you have the patience.
Now, I really enjoy that when I’m learning new things. I’ll start something off at half speed, and I’ll gradually bring it up to tempo. It’s almost like a meditative process. It’s really enjoyable for me. If I’m working out something like a new transcription that I really want to learn, like all that material in that book—that took me a long time (laughs) to learn all that stuff like the “Soul Pride” break and all the breaks for a funky drummer. You can get together the beats pretty quickly, but learning all those breaks? I had to just take them down a tempo, and work them up. It’s a really fun process for me. It’s very meditative. If you just give up on “O.K.—I’ve got to know this,” and you just get into the process of it, fall in love with the process, then it can be a very cathartic process. The result is that you can actually play it up to speed, and it can be very rewarding.
Getting to that point, though, where you love that process—a process where you’re getting something out of something for an hour or two hours a day, and playing it slowly, and increasing it gradually is like meditating with your instrument. To me, the whole process is very meditative, cathartic, and rewarding when you finally get the thing that you’re working on.
Then, what you do with it, what I do with it is that I’ll throw the sheet of paper away, and then I’ll just start improvising on certain things that I like, and certain things that I’ll remember. Then, you start improvising and developing it into your own thing. You learn the thing note for note, but you also twist it and turn it into something’s that got your own spin on it. That’s how you incorporate it into your own playing, and that’s how it becomes something that might have your own twist on it. Hopefully, it is slightly unique.
RR: You watch someone perform their craft, and hear, “They make it look so easy, but I can’t do it.” The great thing about the Groove Alchemy DVD is that you didn’t make it look easy. You made it look like you had to have natural talent; you had to have your genetics all lined up, an imagination, and a powerful skill base to create. Because of all of that, and the fact that you have all those traits, was it easier for you to create your own style because you specialize in improvisational music?
SM: I can only really speak from my own experience, but I think what helped me the most on sound was that I was lucky enough to have teachers who really stressed that to me. I was studying with Johnny Vidacovich, and I started with him when I was 17, 18 years old, and he really tried to impart that on me, that it was important to have my own sound, and to have my own little things that I would do that would put my thumbprint on something, that if I would do something, people would immediately know it was me.
I started working on things like that, but I also started working on the notion that anytime I learned something, I tried never to put it to music exactly as I learned it, or exactly as that person was doing it. I always try to improvise to the point where I come up with a variation that is my take on it. I very rarely throw something that is just a direct quote of something. I always try to take it, and develop it, into my own thing. And, not just with the things that I’m actually playing, but with my tone and my sound, as well. I take different sounds that I really dig, and try to make it so, for example, I do a lot of the buzz roll stuff, and I’ll do that with a snare drum that’s tuned in a way that I feel really gets that across for me, but if I’m smacking backbeats, I’ll play that on the snare with more pitch. I still try to make both of those sound like me.
It’s something that takes time and dedication, but it’s something that you can develop over time. Basically, for me, my playing is a collection of all my favorite ideas, tones, and sounds that I’ve taken, and tried to make very personal. I’ve tried to put my own spin on it, my own stamp on it, and make it so it is my own thing. It’s something that has taken a long time, and, basically, takes working on it every day. (laughs)
But, it does require work. I’m inspired by people outside of music, as well. Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer around, not just because he’s the most talented, but also because he’s worked at it harder than anybody else. Talent and all that are one thing, but you’ve got to take that, and also work really really hard. I’ve just fallen in love with the whole process of working on my craft, shedding, and practicing. I love that. I love learning and discovering new things on the instrument all the time.
Going through this whole book and DVD was a big undertaking for me—not just on the writing of it, and the preparation for the DVD, but learning how to play on it. By going through it, it has definitely refined and helped my playing. It wasn’t just about learning more about songs, and learning more about these things, but, also, putting myself through the creative process. I kept adding to the book because I just kept coming up with new things by going through those processes. I thought, “WOW—this is really working.” I came up with so many new ideas by putting myself through those steps that I would have to cut myself off, and stop. I thought, “O.K.—I see where this is going. I see how much further we could go with it.” Hopefully, people will see it, and come up with some of these conclusions themselves, and develop it along their own paths. Hopefully, they’ll have light bulbs go off as I have, and start developing things. If you do this and this and this and “oh, WOW”—then, something sets you off in a new direction that people will be able to run with, really come up with their own take on some of these things.
That is really what the goal is—not just to understand the groove masters of different songs, but to take it in, and also be creative with it, so it’ll make you a better drummer, improve, be creative, and be able to come up with your own grooves set to whatever musical situation where you are play.
RR: Location is critical, too, when laying down grooves in a studio—for example, the ambience at Headley Grange when Jimmy Page recorded John Bonham on the drum kit for “When the Levee Breaks.” What was the environment like in Levon Helm’s studio where the DVD was filmed, and the record was made? Why did you choose that specific location?
SM: Yeah, it sounded incredible in there. The reason we chose that location was that working with the people who did the DVD and the book were all based out of New York. They usually do their productions somewhere in New York with all of these camera crews. A lot of the studios where they used to do that have been closed—Bearsville, Allaire—so Paul Siegel comes down to JazzFest every year for the last 20 years, and we’ve gotten to know each other really well. He’s a music fanatic. He threw out this idea about going up to Levon’s. We went up to Levon’s to check it out, and Levon was there, and he started playing us all this material off his unreleased record at the time called Electric Dirt, which is the follow-up to Dirt Farmer.
Making that hang with Levon, and him playing us all that music was incredible. We looked at another studio, too, but we were such big fans of Levon, and his studio was just so cool, and the vibe in there was so cool, and it sounds amazing. There is so much wood in there. Underneath the studio floor, are all their offices, so the floor is just a wood floor without any insulation underneath. It’s basically a giant wood chamber—wood on top of, basically, these hollow boxes underneath, which are offices, but, aside from the desks and stuff, there’s a lot of space underneath that’s wood floor, so the sound is incredible. Everything in there is just awesome. The design is amazing. It’s got this fireplace in the studio, and the studio is, literally, attached to his house. It has a great vibe and it sounds amazing, and he was around, and he’d come in and say hello. It was just an incredible experience. I’m so glad we did it there.
RR: Let’s talk about some of your other projects, including some upcoming dates. For example, Cyril Neville is currently touring with you and Galactic, and the band also have a marquee gig co-headlining Red Rocks in July.
SM: That gig came about because it has been a while since we’ve played Red Rocks, and we’ve got a new record out that is doing well [ Ya-Ka-May, which is also the name of a multi-ethnic noodle soup prepared primarily at corner stores in New Orleans], so we wanted to try to go to Red Rocks, and it makes sense to partner-up with Umphrey’s McGee, and try to get as many people as we can there. Our crowd is a little different. [Umphrey’s] will bring in people that we wouldn’t bring in, and we’ll bring in people that they wouldn’t bring in, and, hopefully, it’ll add up to bringing a lot of people.
Playing with Cyril has been incredible because he can sing all these different tunes that we have on the record. We’ve got so many different cats on the record. Having Cyril, we’ll do a lot of tunes, and a lot of tunes that he’s done in the past—Meters’ tunes and
Cyril Neville tunes—so it’s just incredible for us right now.
For me, I’ve also got the new trio record that we talked about, and I co-produced Anders Osborne new record, which is coming out in a week. So, I can’t be in two places at one time, but I’m trying. We’re going to tour together. It’ll be my trio, and on Anders’ record, it is me and Robert Walter. It’ll almost be like combining the two things. Garage a Trois has a new record out [2009’s Power Patriot ]. I’m going home right now to go rehearse with Zigaboo Modeliste because we’ve got this project called The Drummers Cometh, and it is me, Zigaboo, Johnny Vidacovich, Terence Higgins, and several others. It’s pretty exciting to do that. We’ve got Garage a Troix gigs, and Frequinox, which is a very killer all-star funk thing with Will Bernard, Donald Harrison, Robert Walter, Robert Mercurio, and myself. Yeah, keeping myself busy.
RR: Also, Will Bernard and Robert Walter fill out your trio card on the new Groove Alchemy CD. Were the songs put together during or after the filmmaking process?
SM: Towards the end of the process, I was coming up with all these grooves, and I wanted to put them into music. I started talking with Robert Walter and Will Bernard, and they started writing tunes for the project, and I started to fit some of the grooves to the tunes they were writing. This is our third record together, so we know each other pretty well, and they were very helpful in coming up with tunes that I could put these grooves into. So, after going through this creative processes and coming up with these grooves, I could show how you could set them to music. Also, try to get away from it, be expressive, and improvise, and create your own twists on these new grooves that you developed by checking out past work with the masters.
