Saxophonist Martin Perna has long established himself as a primary architect of modern independent music. In addition to founding the popular afro-beat group Antibalas, Perna is an original member of The Dap-Kings, a regular contributor to TV on the Radio and a successful studio musican who has recorded with such diverse names as Beck, Scarlett Johansson, Baaba Maal and DJ Logic. Recently, Perna also released Coconut Rock Deluxe, a new album with his other funk/world-informed rhythmic band Ocote Soul Sounds (a collaboration with Grupo Fantasma’s Adrian Quesada that featured a number of other members of the Antibalas universe). While in New York for a weekly residency with Antibalas at Brooklyn’s Knitting Factory, Perna discussed Ocote Soul Sounds’ evolution, Antibalas’ future and how three success bands formed out of a tiny Brooklyn apartment.
*In addition to Antibalas, your primary project right now is a collaboration with Grupo Fantasma’s Adrian Quesada called Ocote Soul Sounds. Can you start by giving us a little background about how that band came together? *
I started the project back in 2001 when Antibalas was still sort of growing and forming, and it was songs that I had written that didn’t really seem to fit the Antibalas model. So rather than sort of pushing them into that and confusing the musical direction of Antibalas, I just created this other entity, and we just recorded a couple of songs. That first incarnation was just me and a few musicians and then the project went into hibernation for a little while.
Then in the beginning of 2004 I was doing this road trip down to Mexico running on vegetable oil. That summer [2003] Antibalas had played at Bonnaroo, and I saw a big bus that said “Powered by Vegetable Oil,” and it blew my mind. I was like, “No way, I can’t believe this, I gotta figure out how to do this” and so I drove down to Mexico passing through Austin and stayed at Adrian Quesada’s house. He and I met once when he was coming through New York with Groupo Fantasma, and we did a super brief recording session—like a 20 minute recording session. He kind of sampled some of the stuff that I played and dropped it into some beats that he was making, but it was a very small collaboration. Then on my way from Mexico, I had some vehicle troubles and he and his wife put me up in Austin. It took me like three weeks to get the car fixed so I was basically couch surfing at his house and I said, “Hey man, I have all this stuff either recorded or in the works that doesn’t fit the Antibalas mold.” He also had some material that didn’t really fit into the Groupo Fantasmo mold that fit really well with my material, so we put the tracks we had been working on together—each of us kind of added to it and that was our first record, El Nino y El Sol. It was released independently and then it got licensed and re-released by the guys from the Thievery Corporation and their label ESL Music.
The next record, The Alchemist Manifesto, came out and then we spent last year working on Coconut Rock, so it is still very much me and Adrian but we’ve been working and collaborating with friends—it has definitely grown from a studio project to a band. Adrian and I are very much at the core of it but you hear Marcos Garcia a.k.a. Chico Mann from Antibalas and some other really talented players that are getting around quite a bit these days. We did our first real touring in May—we went out to California, and then we did a few weeks with Thievery Corporation in the Northeast. It is cool to start a new project and not have to start from square one. In certain ways, you do have to start from square one but it not like we’re playing Monday night at some bar for five people. What we’ve done with music has definitely paved the way for this to get to people faster and more effectively, so that’s exciting.
How did Thievery Corporation come into the picture?
It was Adrian. I think it was 2005 or 2006 and he played at Austin City Limits with Groupo Fantasmo. Thievery Corporation was playing that year too and Adrian just went and gave one of the guys his CD. They called us two days later and said, “Wow, we like this, we want to put it out” and then it took a couple months to actually fit that into their production schedule. So it happened very smoothly. It is funny, the introduction was made a long time ago but I didn’t actually meet them until a year later when I was on tour with TV on the Radio in Brazil. For a long time our relationship was just via email, and we finally met down in South America. This year they took us out on the road so we got to spend some time with them, but we had put out three records on ESL before we had ever been up to Washington DC to visit their studios and label headquarters. It was just that we were so busy touring and that it was very much a side project for a long time. Now it definitely has a very strong life of its own.
How have your collaborations with Adrian changed now that Ocote Soul Sounds is more of a defined project?
We both do a little bit of everything—even though we live in the same city, its very rare that we’re there at the same time, but we do a lot of collaborating online like bouncing sketches around. He will say, “Hey, I’ve got this guitar part, and these rhythms, and this track together, are you doing any sweet lines on it?” or I might say, “Hey, I’ve got this flute note are you doing a bass line under it?” So there’s a lot of working independently first and bringing those ideas together, rather than us just getting together on a Sunday with a completely blank canvas and saying “let’s write a song.” That almost never happens. And then from there—once we get the songs and the material together—we basically sketch them out. Our drummer is on tour all the time with Mike Dillon and Go-Go Jungle so he’s real busy too. He comes in and plays drums and percussion and tours with us. And then we just kind of fill out the part—whether I’m doing the vocals or Marcos Garcia is doing the vocals or my wife is singing. She is going to be singing a lot more on the next record so it is evolving as far as the relationships we have with the musicians on the album but it’s getting more and more collaborative—more bodies, more minds, more hearts involved in making the music.
Was your friendship with Adrian Quesada one of the reasons you relocated from New York to Austin a few years ago?
No. The band wasn’t the real decision to move down there. I had left New York in November of 2005. You know, I still kind of feel like I live here in New York ‘cause I’m up here so much for work and collaborations with Antibalas. But I moved down there just because I couldn’t afford to live in New York any more. Artistically all this stuff I’ve done is successful, but financially it’s not at all, you know? When you’re in a band with 14 people [like Anitbalas], it doesn’t matter how much money you make, you are never going to be rich. But living in Texas, the little bit of money I do make goes three to four times as far. There’s also a very good music scene in Austin and lots of great musicians and venues. So it is just more relaxing for me—I like being able to sort of recharge my batteries there and then come back to New York and not feel stressed or overwhelmed like I was feeling before.
There is a lot more peace of mind living there. My wife and I bought a house and our mortgage is less than the rent I was paying on a one bedroom apartment in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. I built organic gardens, I have chickens. I’m able to get so much more out of the land and the fruits of my labor than in New York. So after a while it was a no-brainer. I’ve paid my dues in New York—I’m established—and I can go up and stay with my pick of 20 friends. But, yeah, I don’t have to live here any more and I like that. I’ve always been the one to see a situation happening and be like, “OK its time to break out and go somewhere else. That’s always worked out for me.”
You are currently in New York for Antibalas’ residency at the Knitting Factory. I imagine the band’s decision to play a weekly residency at the club had to do with the fact that so many members Antibalas are part of the Broadway play Fela!?
One of the producers of the musical Fela! also is also the owner of the Knitting Factory, Knitting Factory records and the Fela catalogue. He’ll be reissuing a lot of stuff so there definitely is a lot of synchronicity between Antibalas, the Fela! band and their involvement in the show. The Knitting Factory seemed like a center and it was exciting because—despite all of our time in New York—we’ve never had such a sort of multi-layered relationship with a club/label, and it really exciting. We have a good relationship with SOBs and Southpaw—they’re both great venues—but they don’t have all the stuff going for them that the Knitting Factory does—like being able to offer us a residency and all these other resources. So the timing is sort of connected with the show because now, all of a sudden, all these people are coming to see the play and are seeing all the musicians—Sting was just hanging out with the band two nights ago, and said, “I want to talk to you guys!” Jay-Z, Beyonce, Robert De Niro have supported the show, so it’s a trip. So we, as Antibalas, wanted to let people know that this band has been doing this for 12 years—if you want to see us really do what we do, come to the Knitting Factory on a Thursday night after the show and check it out.
You mentioned earlier that you toured as a member of TV in the Radio. You are also a founding member of The Dap-Kings. If I am correct, TV on the Radio, the Dap-Kings and Antibalas all grew out of the same Brooklyn apartment, right?
Yea. TV on the Radio’s Tunde Adebimpe, myself and Gabe Roth—who’s the founder and mastermind behind Daptone records—were all roommates, housemates. We went to NYU together and the three of us lived together in various permutations from the mid- 90’s to the early 2000s. There was a lot of creativity. Sometimes we would collaborate specially on musical projects—I was in the Dap-Kings from day zero until 2000 or 2001, and we were doing stuff for TV on the Radio from their first recording forward. But at the same time those were all separate entities and each one of us was pushing for our own creative vision. I think there was definitely a lot of mutual inspiration and friendship and camaraderie and, in those days, it was all struggle—nobody was coming out to see TV on the Radio or Antibalas. We were just doing it because we loved the music, and it was what was important to us. So it is nice that after 10 or 12 years of doing this we’re getting a little bit of recognition. None of us are on easy street by any means—least of all me—but its been rewarding to find that people out there care and that our music moves people. Just the fact that it resonates with them or brings people together is exciting. We have no idea what’s going to happen from this point on. It could just be that we keep on doing what were doing, that’s cool, or it could be that Jay-Z wants to take us to play on the moon. That could come out of the woodwork. I’m not planning on it but all of these completely unexpected things have already been happening, who’s to say that more stuff can’t happen.
With the members of Antibalas playing on Broadway everyday, where do you see the band going in 2010?
The guys are contractually locked in to being in the show up to a certain point and after that point they can begin to find a sub or two. Antibalas is touring in Australia and New Zealand—we’re doing two weeks of big festivals and then major club gigs over there. And its exciting because people have been listening to our music over there for years, but we have never been. It is just been a matter of money or timing or not having the resources to go over there and play—its no small feat to bring 12 or 13 guys over there. We’ve been to Japan before but that was for one gig and so this is really like for two weeks all across the country and then to New Zealand. So it’s a pretty big tour and we’re looking forward to that, and we will also play a few more shows at the Knitting Factory in January.
