It started with a sit-in. Last summer, Sean Lennon, whose band The Ghost of the Saber Tooth Tiger were on the road opening for Primus and Dinosaur Jr., joined Les Claypool and company for a run through their classic “Southbound Pachyderm.” The collaboration clicked and, with Primus about to take some time off the road, Claypool reached out to Lennon about a new, formal project. Claypool admits that his first thought was to reunite Oysterhead, his trio with Trey Anastasio and Stewart Copeland, but his partnership with Lennon developed into a tried-and-true new band. Both multi-instrumentalists and songwriters who hover on the fringes of psychedelic-rock and alt-pop, the duo recorded an entire album of new material, Monolith of Phobos, themselves and then spent the summer on the road supporting the album as The Claypool Lennon Delirium. Lennon and Claypool rounded out their Delirium with an all-star backing band consisting of Beastie Boys keyboardist Mark “Money Mark” Ramos Nishita and drummer Paulo Baldi of Claypool’s Fungi Band.
The new friends regrouped this past weekend for an appearance at Live Oak, FL’s Suwannee Festival and will close out the year at Oakland, CA.’s Fox Theater on a New Year’s Eve bill with Primus. Before their tour earlier this year, Relix and Jambands.com spoke with Claypool and Lennon about their new project and how they created an album that nods to their past projects, while still sounding fresh and unique.
Let’s start by getting a little background on how this project came together, how did you and Sean first meet and decide it’s a good time to start yet another band?
Les Claypool: Well, we were heading out on tour in the old Primus machine, doing a tour with Dinosaur Jr. We were looking for a first of three and my manager told me to check out Sean Lennon’s band, and I thought they were amazing. One of their videos hit a chord with me. So they came out on the road with us, I became a fan and we struck up a friendship right away. We started having little impromptu jams back stage. One night he sat in on “Southbound Pachyderm” and it was amazing. It was one of the best sit-ins we’ve had. We just got to bullshit and I said, “Hey, come on out to California. Let’s hang out in the studio and see if we come up with something.” He was out here for six weeks and we had 10 kids.
Sean Lennon: Well, I’ve been touring with my band The Ghost of the Saber Tooth Tiger for a couple of years on this record and we were pretty much done. We were like, “Man, we got to go make another record we’ve been on tour forever.” But then we were told we might get to play with Primus and we were all just like, “Okay. Let’s get back.” We were all Primus fans. We got on the road, and it was a really special tour. There was no drama or bad vibes or weirdness or stupidity. It was just a really cool team. Les and everybody are just super cool. We just had a lot of fun. I wound up jamming a little bit with Les backstage, and then he invited me to sit in on a song called “Southbound Pachyderm,” which was my favorite song pretty much. We had a lot of fun jamming, so I guess he just had enough and I had a little time. He was like, “Do you want to try to record some stuff in the studio,” and I was like, “Are you kidding? Of course.” I think we’re both rather surprised that 2 weeks later we had like 10 songs tracked. We didn’t necessarily know what was going to happen in the studio. It went really fast and it went really well. Then I went back home for a little while and when I returned we finished the album.
Sean, you have been a big fan of Primus’ music for years. What was your introduction to their world?
SL: I remember when I was just moving back to New York from a boarding school when I was like 15, and there was no Primus yet on MTV. They were super underground. I was dating this girl in Italy, so I had been taking a train to this town which is really small. It’s this little, sort of rural town. And we were walking on the street at night. It was the kind of town where everything is closed at 9 pm, but there was this little club/bar venue on the corner. It was just jumping up and down, vibrating. It was some really loud music. That’s such a cartoon— little shack dancing on the corner. And we were just like, “Wow. You got to go in there.” There wasn’t anything happening in the town.
So we walked into this tiny space, and we were just like— It’s rocking! There’s a crazy band playing. I remember seeing who I’d later know to be Les Claypool. This guy had multicolor dreads with shaved hair on one side. He was doing this weird crab walk. And singing “Jerry was The Race Car Driver.” I remembered that because the lyric was just so snarky and funny and odd— quirky as well. I just walked in with my friend and there were like bodies flying from the balconies. People were hurling themselves from the balconies in the name of— I guess moshing. I hadn’t even heard of moshing yet. I hadn’t heard Nirvana. I hadn’t heard anything that was later to be associated with that kind of behavior. That was the first time I had ever saw people violently interacting within a group circle of men, kind of like athletically, chest pounding. And so I went over to the merch table, and all of their albums were bizarre, it was so up my ally, just kind of dark and humorous and playful and childlike but also kind of grotesque. It was just super hip.
I went back to New York thinking that I had discovered something. But then within a very short amount of time, everybody was checking out the “Jerry Was a Racecar Driver” video. I don’t know. That’s how I remember it. I remember being like, “Oh man. I found something on my own.” I hadn’t really. But that was how I was introduced to them. It was literally just a coincidence, walking into some random rural Italian punk rock concert in the middle of nowhere. It was pretty cool. It was one of the coolest accidental shows I’ve ever seen. But yeah that music influenced me. It was sort of a gateway to more progressive music and more musiciany music and more player-centric music. Virtuoso players like Tony Levin and King Crimson and stuff. I think I was opened up to a world of shredders you know? Before that I was more into classic rock.
I can’t really think of that many people who came after who felt that particular way either. No one was as singularly quirky and unique as Les and his band while also not having a shred of overplaying fugue. Everything he did was cool. Everything he did was actually kind of punk. Whereas he never ever seemed to be shredding for the sake of shredding, he just had that incredible technique and it just was apparent in everything. It wasn’t like “And now I’m going to take this 40 minute solo where the drummer is going to leave the stage.” He’s not like that. He’s just playing songs with a very strong aesthetic. I can’t really think of anybody else who did it in that way. A lot of the cool musically accomplished people I feel like are more within, I don’t know, like solo for the sake of soloing.
Les, how familiar were you with Sean’s music and GOASTT’s music before that run?
LC: I was not familiar with GOASTT at all. I heard from his earlier releases back in the day; he did a record on Grand Royal. I always thought he had that eclectic nature that I think is reflective of his mother’s influence. I always found that very interesting.
When it came to actually writing and recording these songs, when you were in the studio, was there any sort of method to the madness in terms of writing and recording?
LC: Well I had a couple tunes, and he had a couple tunes, and we just started fiddling around. Normally in my own writing I play quite a bit of the drums and percussion, but right off the bat he sat down on the drums and started playing drums to it and I thought, “Wow, this is amazing because he has a totally different feel than I do.” I kind of lean forward on the beat. My influences drumwise are guys like Stewart Copeland, where as he had that Ringo, Nick Mason feel. We thought we would write some old psychedelic record, and that was what we were joking about from the very beginning: writing a Floyd-era record. It kind of went down that path, but then we went down some other paths as well. He ended up playing drums on every song except for one.
Sean brought a bunch of toys with him, such as a mellotron. It was a true collaboration. Even when we started figuring out who did what where, it’s pretty much 50/50. Everything we did. I haven’t had that kind of relationship in quite a long time, if ever.
Les, when you listen to the songs, it feels like a happy medium between some of your past projects and some of Sean’s past projects. Was there an original target on the sonic map because it was a joint influence for the two of you? Or did you personally want to go in there and make something that was a little different than Primus and your solo work, yet still had that psychedelic feel?
LC: When we first started talking, we were joking around and turning each other on to different music and films and all kinds of whatnot. The whole crux of our friendship was that we would sit down and geek out with each other on film, art, literature, and music. Obviously, Sean’s got a very colorful background, so even being around his mom and his whole life with his perspective on things, is pretty unique and interesting. Then again, going back to the notion of him on the drums, for me that was a big deal. I was turning over something, even when I bring in drummers to play, I generally don’t work with drummers with that kind of feel. It’s more of what I call a “lopey” feel, as it’s sort of laid back. Usually my guys lie forward a little bit. Just that itself gave the project a much different feel than anything that I would’ve normally done on my own. Whether it’s Primus, or Oysterhead, or Frog Brigade, or any of these projects. Doing these things with Adrian Belew or Danny Carey or Bucket of Bernie Brains, none of them have that kind of feel, that sort of “lopey.” Sean hates it when I say “lopey.”
Were there certain films that spoke to you, that could sonically inspire this project for you two?
LC: Well like I said, seeing that stuffed animal video and the Jodorowsky influence on that, talking about those types of films. He and I sat down and watched Head here at the house one night and that was pretty funny. I assumed that he had seen it, though he hadn’t, he knew the Porpoise Song, so we sat down and watched Head and he was flipping out.
At what point did you decide to record the album as a duo instead of bringing in a full band?
SL: Les and I both played drums on the album and early on we decided we were just going to try to write without a drummer. It was just less cooks in the kitchen. And then, we had planned on, once he wrote the song, getting a real drummer to come in. I think that by the time we finished writing and doing the basic tracks, we thought we’d rather just stick to us playing. It was that simple. Les’ music is really in your face and hard-hitting and surreal and provocative and exciting, but he’s also pretty chilled out guy. I guess it’s rare.
Was there any music that he turned you onto while you guys were hanging out that maybe you hadn’t listened to before or hadn’t revisited for a while?
LC: Yeah. Of course I always draw a blank whenever these types of things come up. We went and saw Sabbath together. In New York, we went and saw one of the final Sabbath shows which was amazing. It was great because they were playing a lot of the early, Masters of Reality type stuff.
When it came to putting together the live band, you have a couple extra players involved including Money Mark. What was the process of putting the live band together like?
LC: Sean wanted Money Mark. I met Money a couple times but I didn’t really know him. For me, a part of the thing is how good of a hang somebody is, and I’ve heard from a few people and the few times I’ve met Mark, he’s a great guy. So that’s an A plus right there. And then of course, obviously, he has pretty amazing music, so we get to play together, and I’m looking forward to getting in a room and playing with him. Sean was pushing hard for Mark, so that’s been a great thing. As far as the drummer, I worked with so many people over the years and I just felt Paulo would be the best person for this project because he can kind of cop that lopey sound. It’s funny ‘cause we were talking about Sabbath—years ago when we toured with Sabbath, there were all the original guys and they had Bill Ward on drums. They got this new guy who is spectacular, but there was something about seeing them with Bill Ward that was unbelievable because he has that kind of lopey feel. He slows down; it’s an interesting feel that you don’t see in my world very often. So I suggested getting Paulo because we are going to listen to my catalogue. The plan is to go out and do these songs and also we want to have a strong setlist to draw from, so we can mix it up every night. So we’re going to play a lot of my stuff, some of his stuff, and then dip into some covers, we’re not sure what yet.
SL: I’ve always wanted to be in a band with Money Mark. He’s been my friend since we were really young. My first label was the Beastie Boys’ label. I’ve been friends with Mark since then. He’s just really busy, and I’ve been busy. Everything just aligned for this. He happened to be free. He had the whole time off. You know, it was a shot in the dark, but wound up paying off. I mean it’s hard to explain why any few people get along. It’s the miracle of chemistry, I guess. I mean neither of us knew exactly what we were getting into exactly. I think in my case I was definitely a little nervous because I really looked up to Les as a player. I did a lot of practicing trying to get warmed up. I thought that I’d be intimidated playing with him, but he just really guided me through it in a very generous and easy-going way. It actually felt easy playing with him. I think that had more to do with him. I’m not sure though. I went into it like, “Alright. Got to make sure I can keep up with Les.” But it wasn’t like that. It didn’t feel like there was any keeping up. It just felt like we were having fun and playing music together in a very natural way. It’s a testament to his chillness. Despite his virtuoso accomplishment, he managed to make me feel at ease.
Les, your solo project and side projects have had a large element of improvisation and jamming. Do you guys plan to do some more extended jams on stage or is it going to be on the more concise, psychedelic side of the spectrum?
LC: It’s a healthy mixture of both. Sean’s a freak, and he can be out there. We were all surprised, pleasantly surprised, when he sat in on “Pachyderm” that night. You know a big part of the jam element is the lack of fear and he was pretty fearless out there, he grabbed the ball and ran with it. It was pretty sweet. So I plan on tossing him the ball quite a bit. He’s got a great sensibility and he’s not afraid to jump in and swim.
SL: I would say that, I mean I have a band called Mystical Weapons that’s only improvisation. That’s the band I have with Greg Saunier from Deerhoof. But knowing that I’m going to be improvising with Les, all I can say is I’m practicing. It’s like a Rocky montage.
Les, the last couple years you’ve been pretty devoted to Primus and you’ve done some extended tours with all sorts of people as you’ve said, Dinosaur Jr. and Tool, as well as your own headlining staff. Have you found that this newest incarnation of Primus has shaped or changed your improvisational abilities?
LC: I don’t know. Now that Herb’s back, I don’t want to play strictly improvisational because that’s his world, going all over the place. I think with Primus, especially what’s going on with Tool, it was tighter, and less of the improv stuff. But we definitely have our space sections within certain songs, whether it’s “Pachyderm” or “American Life,” where you just got to take it to the moon. We’re planning on having a large repertoire of material to draw from because between all of us we have a shitload of music that we can bring forward.
As you said you’re all still in the planning stages, are there any corners of your own catalog that you normally don’t get to play with Primus or Frog Brigade or Fancy Band that you think are particularly fit for this group of players?
LC: I was on the phone with Sean talking about the same thing, like what we’re going to do, and I was like, “Okay, let’s just put songs that we want to potentially do and throw them at each other. See which ones seem like they would be a comfortable fit.” There’s a bunch of songs I haven’t played in a long time because I’ve been doing Primus for five years. I was trying to play “David Makalaster” [Frog Brigade] the other day and I was like, “How the hell does that go again?” I had to dust off some cobwebs myself.
Bonnaroo turned 15 this year. Looking back at the first Bonnaroo Festival, do you have any memories of it and how have you seen it evolve?
LC: That was Frog Brigade, full blown Frog Brigade. I forget how many guys I had on the band in that one. That may have been one of the first shows I played with Tim Alexander again, he was in the very first Frog Brigade. He came on that tour and did Bonnaroo and that sort of brought him back to the band. At the time, that brought him back to Primus. It was also rekindling our musical relationship. I think we were like the second band to ever play on the main stage at Bonnaroo. I remember it being very hot and of course, I had on some sort of old, Scottish military jacket on and I was sweating my balls off. It was a freak show; it was a good freak show. I don’t know how many times I’ve played Bonnaroo. Three or four times, I don’t even know.
Oysterhead was part of the reason that I did this project. Primus was taking a year off because it had been going strong for five years and I was trying to fire up the old Oysterhead machine. Anyway, the schedules weren’t aligning. There I was during the tour, hanging out with Sean when I said, “Hey I’m looking for new work to do this year. What are you doing?”
SL: I played Bonnaroo with Shelia Morato once, but I hadn’t been there in a longtime. I love Bonnaroo. Those days it was probably different than now.
Sean, are you still writing toward another Ghost of a Saber Tooth Tiger record?
SL: Yeah, Ghost of a Saber Tooth Tiger is my band with Charlotte [Kemp Muhl] and we want to make another record. But this has sort of came up. I’m just playing it by ear. But right now, I’m producing a little for The Blacklist. They’re at my studio, and they’re just recording their record. That’s what I’m spending my time on now before I go off to tour with Les.
Les, you’ve seen the jamband scene evolve. In this day and age, psychedelic rock is bigger than it’s been since Sean’s dad was around. At the same time, the traditional jamband’s model has nearly dissipated. From your perspective, how have you seen it evolve in recent memory?
LC: I have seen the jam scene kind of floating in and out of me. I’m doing my thing with this group of individuals and that group of individuals. When I first got offered that Superjam in New Orleans, not even knowing what the hell it meant, I called Trey [Anastasio of Phish] because I was like, “Oh, he’s a jam guy.” He said he would do a project with Stewart Copeland and me. I think that was him saying, “I don’t really want to do this but if we get Stewart Copeland, then I’ll do it.” I remember going to do the first Oysterhead gig thinking, I’ll just jam on this stuff, let’s not do any of our songs. I think we did one or two covers and they were sort of last minute. Stewart was even worse than me, he was like, “What are you talking about? We’re just gonna jam.” So when we realized, “Wow, there are people out there that like that.”
We used to do that just hanging out in the garage all the time. Just sit with some friends; pack a bunch of shit into the garage, and that was what you did. That really opened my eyes to the notion that, “Hey, there are people out there that want to see you dance on the edge and just see if you can fall off or not. Or just see how gracefully you do fall off, and theoretically land again.” For me, when people would say the “jam” thing, I’d think, “That’s the Dead…and Phish,” not knowing all this other stuff. I knew Galactic because they’re friends of mine, and going into that whole world of seeing different bands. Now it has evolved so much more, I mean we’re talking ancient times now. I mean 2000 and 2001, it doesn’t seem like it, but that’s a long ass time ago. Most of the time, I don’t even know who the hell is who. I see these people at festivals and say, “Oh, that’s cool.” But most of the time I’m fairly oblivious to what’s going on.
