The Blues Traveler frontman/vocalist/harmonica player’s career took a fascinating path back to his origins upon the release of the debut album by John Popper and the Duskray Troubadours on 429 Records earlier this month. The self-titled album is a mixture of soul, sharp pop, updated blues motifs, acoustic bliss, and an uncanny desire to embrace the melodic touchstones of a song. The quintet also features a partnership with Jono Manson, a member of the Worms whom, along with Popper, was a seminal figure of the burgeoning New York club scene in the 1980s. The Duskray Troubadours focus Popper’s songcraft while giving him a co-songwriting avenue outside of his comfort zone.
Jambands.com caught up with Popper in Austin at the recent SXSW festival where he was a performer, guest musician, and public speaker. Popper is an energetic and exploratory conversationalist, while also maintaining an air of dignified wisdom and humility that comes from years of “sitting on my ass on a tour bus” traversing the land in a career which certainly appears to have as much legs as it ever did in 2011. Indeed, the Blues Traveler, solo artist, and, now, Duskray Troubadour touches upon the debut album, plans for the upcoming 25th anniversary of his main band, and the possibility of a 20th anniversary H.O.R.D.E. festival perhaps destined to occur in the summer of 2012.
RR: What struck me immediately about the self-titled debut album is that it sounded like the band had been playing together for many years.
JP: I think part of that is because we’ve known each other for a long time. We trust each other really well that has led to a familiarity. All of these musicians are really strong and we can trust each other really easily.
RR: One relationship goes back a pretty long time—songwriter/guitarist/producer Jono Manson, who you’ve known for about 30 years, right?
JP: Pretty much—25, 26 years, yeah. He has always been a friend over the years, but we met when I first came to New York and Blues Traveler was still in high school. I was just going to The New School for Social Research for my college, and I was coming back to New Jersey on the weekends to keep the band going. They would come to the city whenever they could get away. One of the things to do in the city was that I would go to jam sessions at Abilene’s Blues Bar. They had an open mike night on Tuesdays; that was on 21st and 2nd Ave. I met Joan Osborne there, and she was putting a band together, and the bass player in her band was Jerry Dugger and he was in a band with Jono Manson. They were playing down at Nightingale’s bar, and Joan said, “You have to go see Jono Manson,” and she talked me into going down and seeing him.
[Jono] was playing in this band called The Worms and he was the king of the scene. But, because of the cabaret law, they couldn’t use their horn section, so the consolidated trio version of that was called the Mighty Sweetones. That was when I saw Jono do his thing. He was like an older brother, and took us under his wing. He’s been a mentor ever since. He’s great at teaching people about music, a great communicator about music.
RR: Have you discussed doing a project together over the years with Jono?
JP: Yeah. We’ve always been looking for a time to do something together. It’s funny that it took this long to get that done.
RR: The work does feel effortless, the songs are well-written, and the band is tight. How did you finally manage to gather all of these elements, sit down, and amass the players and material for the album?
JP: Steve Lindsay [bassist] and Mark Clark [drummer] have been playing with Jono forever. That was a no-brainer when gathering players. Kevin Trainer [guitar] lives in Denver now, so he was near by, but he’s been playing in the Surreal McCoys, a band that was so hysterically funny and talented back in the old days. We’d go and see them at the Rodeo Bar [27th and 3rd Ave in New York City], and he’s just one of my favorite guitar players of all time. He’s got such personality in his playing. From the album, he’s such a great soloist, and I’m a great soloist, so it was fun to be the violinist to Kevin’s viola part under me. It really gives me a great support that way, so I was really excited that he was available. He’s actually got a real job, so he can’t go on the road with us, except for when we play in Denver. I’ve heard he’s going to play some dates with us on the East Coast, and wherever he can.
Aaron Beavers [guitarist]—that is where I felt pretty good about myself; getting his sound with Jono’s sound because they both have a rootsy sound, but one is more a Texas sound [Beavers] and one is more a New York sound, but now Santa Fe sound [Manson]. Aaron has been playing in this band Sherman, who have been opening for Blues Traveler on the road. He’s got this great enthusiasm and he writes songs in a way that I really knew would add a great energy to this. The combination really made it powerful.
RR: How important was it that you recorded the album in New Mexico, and how did that particular vibe add to the overall atmosphere on the tracks?
JP: Well, first of all, the price was right for this place. I think it gave us the opportunity to really hunker down and make it sort of “camping out” almost because we were isolated from everybody. It’s such a beautiful atmosphere and we could work on it day and night. It’s just us up there, and it made it a pure experience. It is a beautiful part of the country, and it lent itself to the music we were doing. Santa Fe is a really artistic place. You can really focus on what it is you’re trying to do, and not worry about distractions.
RR: How much material was brought to those month-long sessions?
JP: We would have sketches of material, but we all knew we were going to have to figure it out in the studio, so we weren’t really trying to nail anything down. That being said, there were some songs that were around for a while. For me, it was about collaborating
writing-wise. There were some songs like “A Lot Like You” that had been written by George Breakfast, another friend of ours from the old days and a really great songwriter. I was excited just to be the vocalist on that. There are other songs that I had nothing to do with the writing of, and it was just fun to just sing those, too. But a lot of songs were collaborative right up until we laid them down. Over the years, you develop a faith that when you are laying it down, that’s when you’re really going to finish the writing.
RR: Well, there you go. Let’s cherry pick a few songs. Right off the bat, I was blown away by the Beatles-like quality of the opening track, “Love Has Made It So.”
JP: That was a song where I had a melody that was in my head for a long time. It sort of regenerates in the middle of its cycle, so it was a very annoying thing to write lyrics to; I gave that to Jono as a challenge (laughter) to write lyrics to it, and he actually worked on it with his girlfriend, Caline Welles, and I was really surprised on how well they did on that. It blew me away. He’s just crazy enough to do it. Yeah, I really love the Beatles aspect of it. The surprising thing to me is how different all the other songs are from that particular song. [“Love Has Made It So”] is a bright and optimistic song, and the other ones are kind of mellower. I think everybody in the band has a Beatles reverence, and it was very accurately reflected in that. I was very proud of that song; my contribution to that was the melody. Jono wrote the bridge. Jono’s great at throwing the bridge in. Sometimes, people hire him just for his bridges. It was a really fun thing to do, and the harmonies fall in place there. The harp solo—I knew I wanted to do a Mersey kind of thing, and it fell into place when he got those words in. Aaron tied in the end; I couldn’t figure out how to end the melody, so Aaron figured out how to put the cap on each verse. (laughs)
RR: You touched upon it, but the piece is a great doorway to what comes next on the record in terms of feel.
JP: I wanted to open the record with “What Can I Do For You” because that’s my favorite song. It’s a Jono song. I just love it. To me, that song was what I came to New Mexico to do. That was the thing that I feel Blues Traveler was missing—that sort of subtlety. But it was Stu Fine, off of the record label [429], who really thought of opening with “Love Has Made It So.” Once he did that, I think it really opened the record in a great way, and we all just immediately got it. I think it is a great way to open the record.
RR: “What Can I Do For You” has my favorite vocal on the whole record.
JP: Oh, thank you. Thank you.
RR: Let’s talk about harp solos. My favorite one is on “Bereft.”
JP: Yeah, I think “Bereft” is my favorite harp solo that I’ve done on just about anything. I think part of it is that Kevin is doing a real subtle thing with the guitar. He’s being very slow because I’m filling a lot of space there. There’s a conversation going on. I’m just pouring it all out, but it is still in context of a phrase that Kevin is having with me, and that is really hard to do and it’s a happy accident. I think “Bereft” is one of those blues songs that I never really get to do—a traditional blues song. And that blues song is not quite traditional because we were in Italy, and I was mourning this relationship with a girl I’d broken up with, and we were in the hotel where Percy Shelley died, so there is a creepy ghostly vibe to the place. I was also listening to some Nick Cave at the time. The turnaround struck me more of an Italian blues song. There’s a lot of Italy in that, that sort of European detachment from a real blues song, a real blues progression, which also gave me that extra drama I wanted in the writing of that song. The performance of it—having Kevin there, allowed me to get even more furious because he was so subdued, and there was a contrast that I could work with; it enabled me just the right amount of delay and just the right mood that I feel like I really hit one out of the park and we caught it on tape.
RR: Contrast—great word. There are two songs in a row where it appeared like everyone was playing as one—“All the Way Down” and “Make It Better.” Both had strong pop overtones, but there is also some soul, some folk, and other sonic terrain.
JP: Yeah, you know, I’ve had people say they didn’t know what genre to put the album in. To me, that means I’ve stumbled on my own genre. (laughter) When you don’t know where you belong that means you belong right where you’re supposed to be, and that means you made your own way. I’ve gone through that with Blues Traveler. They didn’t know quite where to put us. Because we had “Blues” in the name Blues Traveler and I was a harmonica player, they would err in that direction. Truthfully, we were our own subcategory. That is what you want to be. It helps when you can be…I think you’re being your most honest when people don’t know where to put you because everyone is an individual. Truthfully, everyone should be their own category in music, but because human nature is what it is, they want to put you next to somebody: “Oh, you’re like this guy.” That’s just how that is. It’s not even a marketing thing; it’s just a human nature thing. They can’t really like you unless they can say “Oh, you’re like this guy.”
Patsy Cline is exactly Patsy Cline, but someone had to say she’s like this singer or that singer, even though she broke her mold. I don’t know if there’s anyone like her, before or since, but “she’s a typical female Country singer.” Is that really true?
RR: That’s interesting because “Something Sweet” had me thinking of an R&B song, but done the “Popper Way,” which turns what you just said on its head—meaning that you could take a genre, and run off on your own path within it. I caught your band performing that recently on Lopez Tonight, and you just nailed it.
JP: That’s just a classic Jono song. What I love about that is that it’s a cup of coffee; it’s really hard to screw it up. It was so relaxing while singing it. It’s got everything you need in it, and by doing it, I got to do my Al Green impression. It’s a soul song, it’s an R&B song, and I feel grateful that people can say it’s a John Popper version of that. I guess
that’s the advantage of being around this long—people identify you with your own sound, and that is something that I feel honored by.
RR: “Champipple” bumps up the mood fairly quickly after that.
JP: Yeah, that was Chris [Barron] from the Spin Doctors, me and Jono in a round table writing session. We met Chris in New York, and on the way to the hotel, Jono and I were talking about this Sanford and Son episode where I think it’s Ripple and Ginger Ale, and that’s the family celebratory drink. They call it Champipple. It must actually taste pretty ghastly. They don’t make Ripple anymore, so we won’t know what it actually tastes like, but it was just too fun to say “Champipple,” so we had to make a song about it.
RR: Was Fred drinking it by himself, or was his son, Lamont drinking it, too?
JP: I remember the episode. They were skipping out on some wedding ceremony, and I think Lamont was pining for the champagne they were missing, and Fred said, “Oh, that’s nothing. We drink Ripple and Ginger Ale. We call it Champipple.”
What’s fun are the harmonies. Jono’s singing, “Power to the ‘pipple” and “ShamWow to the ‘pipple, now,” so, we could get sued in a myriad of ways—by the champagne people, by the ShamWow people, by the “Power to the ‘pipple’”…I guess Yoko Ono owns that. She’d love to sue us. All kinds of people could sue us on that one. But, don’t worry; it’ll have to sell a lot for anyone to want to sue us.
RR: Let’s hope that’s a problem.
JP: Yeah, it’s a good problem to have.
RR: I got carried away with my notes about your solo on “Hurt So Much”—‘shattered-glass harmonica solo with the pieces floating away, one by one, each series of notes unique and different as they float on by…’
JP: That was a tough one. The melody for that was really from a time with this girl I fell in love with. We finally sealed the deal, as it were, and I had to get up and catch a plane and she was asleep. It was at a Hilton hotel, and they had one of those automated Muzak soundtracks, which was playing a melody, but it was some sort of electronic song, and it was that melody that I kept singing along to it as I was getting dressed. I was determined and really wanted to make the song to that. It was a much faster beat, a techno thing. The chords are that, but a much slower thing, and it became more of a soul thing. To this day, I have it recorded in my iPhone because it was so maddening and so repetitive that when you fall asleep to a movie or something, it plays it, so I have six hours of this electronic thing in my head. I was determined to write music to that, and get my revenge (laughs), you know, for having it programmed in my head. We slowed it down so the band could play it, and we went through variations of speed. I tried playing it to the same tempo to
the Hilton thing, and it didn’t work; it sounded a little inhumane. We slowed it down, and we eventually settled on that speed. It really is a quirky song. It was hard to find its place, and that was through a lot of experimenting. That was when I was trying to do my Al Green impression, but it’s a strange chord progression. We had to move some of the chords around to make it interesting and to make it fit. I say that one was a bunch of work to try to get that to sound right.
And, then, at the end, I wound up hitting this really high note, and yeah…I got Jono and he wrote a nice little bridge there at the end. I’m really glad that song is on there, but I always put that in our live shows as the one that I am reluctant to sing because it’s about heartbreak. I mean they’re all sort of about heartbreak, but that one is like the really naked…you want a memory because it’s so sweet, but you know that it’s going to hurt every time because you love it so much. In my mind, it was the most vivid snapshot of a moment that was so delicious that I don’t want to remember it, but I have to remember it because it’s so delicious. To me, it was more about the lyrical content. And, yeah…I think that that one I was almost bordering on a Hawaiian lounge singer. That was a tough battle. To this day, I’m not sure I completely nailed it. I feel like I’m nailing it a little better live. There’s something haunting that I really responded to; I love what it’s saying.
RR: And right after that, you wander into a juke joint with “Don’t Tread On Me.”
JP: That was Kevin Trainer’s contribution. We added a few things to it, but that was when we all felt that Kevin was hitting right on the times. Everybody felt that way. It was right around the financial collapse, and everybody was wondering what the hell’s going on. He made references to ever since Big John left town…the king is dumpster diving looking for his crown, and one of the other lines is me, I’m out on Main Street, and he said, watching it all go down… but he thought I said, watching the dog go down, so we decided to keep that in (laughs) because watching the dog go down is like watching it all go down, but with a little more harshness. That’s a crowd pleaser. Everyone seems to really respond to that because there’s something “I really don’t care what people think” about that song. I think everyone responds to that attitude. It’s a really fun one.
RR: What does it share, if anything at all, with the next tune, “End of the Line?”
JP: “End of the Line” is a song Jono wrote with Terry Diers. “End of the Line” is a song that I wished I wrote. Talk about heartbreak—there’s something in that bridge ‘til I find someone who loves me half as much as you say you don’t love me is something that I felt many times and it expresses it so well that I can really nail that line, especially when it’s harmonized with Jono. There’s a certain emphasis when you sing it. It is just one of the prettier songs that I’ve gotten the chance to sing. I think that one gets everybody gulping. That is a great contrast to “Don’t Tread On Me.” “Don’t Tread On Me”—everybody’s having a lot of fun. We actually do them in reverse. We do “End of the Line” into “Don’t Tread On Me” because you don’t want to leave the crowd gulping. On a record, you don’t mind doing that, but certainly (laughs), you don’t want to do that at a live show.
I think that everybody loves that song. I think this album is definitely going to get me laid a lot more. I think a girl will respond to the message of the song. I think this is one of the things that I love working with Jono—he and I have this reverence for the Beatles and the lyrical content. The Beatles sing about love. And that’s really what I like to sing about. That’s the thing that I’m always hung up on, and I think Jono, too. For all of my nonsense that I talk about—I’ll be vulgar—but at the end of the day, that’s really what we sing about, and that’s what the Beatles sing about. They always have that mythology that you’re either an Elvis person or a Beatles person. Elvis will sing about his hair, or car, or blue suede shoes; the Beatles will sing about your heart. I think that’s the difference. I think that’s why the Beatles conquered songwriting, and Elvis needed a songwriter.
RR: Let’s talk about the iTunes bonus track, “Hurdy Gurdy Fandango.”
JP: That’s an old song, which I always whip out for people. I think we tried that for Blues Traveler. I wrote that in ’91 or ’92, and I did do that with Frogwings in ’99. It was one that Jono really liked, but I didn’t really see it connecting with the other stuff because, again, it was from another time, and without even mentioning it to Stu Fine from 429 Records, he heard that. He said, “The other stuff seems more coherent and now, ” and that one felt long in the middle in the other material. As a bonus track, it doesn’t bother me as much and other people seem to like it. To me, it reminds me of 1991 as opposed to 2011. There’s a twenty-year difference. (laughs)
RR: Ah…speaking of two decades and more, at the recent SXSW festival, you were on a panel called “Interview with John Popper—25 Years of Blues Traveler.” How do you quantify 25 years of that particular band in any period of time?
JP: The first thing you do is you realize it won’t cover it. (laughter) It’s…it’s strange. I have friends who are younger than my band.
RR: Scary.
JP: Yeah. It is. The older you get, the more that kind of stuff you get. I’ve got people who are way younger than the band: “I remember being in the crib and hearing your music.” That’s a strange feeling. It is a surreal thing to be like an institution. A quarter of a century feels weird, but I mean, all these milestones that you hit as you get older are always strange. I think that’s what hitting milestones is all about. But I do feel lucky. I’m glad that I’ve partnered up with some really tried-and-true people that are good businessmen, too, to the extent that they are. They are certainly my equals. I think it’s been a really fun thing, and it’s given me the opportunity to do stuff like this.
It’s also interesting how this co-writing experience sort of rippled into Blues Traveler. We always kept all the writing in house all these years. It’s been a luxury we’ve denied ourselves. After this experience, I went to Blues Traveler and told them about this. I
started co-writing in this environment with people that I trusted really well, and it enabled us to go and work with people that we never met before. In January, we started work on our 25th Anniversary album that we are going to be doing in 2012. We worked with Alejandro Escovedo, Carrie Rodriguez, and Ron Sexsmith, and we worked on a bunch of stuff that will be coming out on this album, and Blues Traveler responded very differently than I did, and it was very positive, but with a Blues Traveler kind of thing. It’s going to be a really great experience, and I just love how that ripple effect keeps going. You’ll see that, and it’s going to make this next album different. That was what I was trying to get away from—the assembly line approach of Blues Traveler. We were starting to write the same songs over and over again because we were developing into this sort of assembly line approach. The Duskray Troubadours experience helped to break that and keep things vibrant, which was really what I was after. 429 Records, who released the Duskray Troubadours album, signed the next Blues Traveler album, so it’s all going to be organic in leading to that, and I’m very happy about that. We’ll see what the next 25 years brings, but man, my ass is killing me from sitting on a tour bus.
The thing is there are a lot of bands who are older than us. It’s not even a record we’re breaking. I just helped celebrate the Allman Brothers’ 40th Anniversary two years ago. It never stops; you can go as long as you want. I look at B.B. King as one of my heroes. He can play until he’s 90, and that’s the good news. The bad news is that he’ll be 90 and on a tour bus somewhere. (laughs) Think how his ass will feel.
RR: Where is your tour bus going this year and with whom?
JP: Blues Traveler is doing a couple of gigs, but mostly, it’ll be Troubadour touring. Right around December, Blues Traveler goes into the studio. There’s also talk of a tribute album to Blues Traveler, and some sort of B-sides/Greatest Hits thing. That all comes out in the spring [2012]. Our new album will come out in the fall of 2012, and [Blues Traveler] will be touring that whole time.
RR: What about the possibility of a return for the H.O.R.D.E. festival?
JP: Yeah, we’re talking about it. That would be H.O.R.D.E.’s 20th Anniversary, summer of 2012, so that would be very apropos. We’re looking at it. Everybody’s talking about Colorado, and that stuff is in the works. We’ll see if we can get everybody on board. There are a lot of entities you’ve got to juggle for that, but I think, so far, the reaction of everybody seems to be positive, so we’ll see what we can get going.
