Of all the members of The String Cheese Incident, drummer Michael Travis and percussionist Jason Hann ventured the farthest from their seminal jamband’s roots during the band’s three-year hiatus. Regrouping as the all-improvisational electronic duo EOTO, the rhythm section not only changed styles but switched instruments with Hann moving to drums and Travis dividing his time between bass, keyboards and other computer samplers. Though their new direction was initially met with some resistance from String Cheese Incident purists, EOTO gradually built their own audience and can now pack marquee venues like New York’s Irving Plaza and San Francisco’s The Fillmore. As they have for the past two years, Hann and Travis will split their time between EOTO, String Cheese and a variety of side groups in 2012. While on Jam Cruise, Hann sat down with Jambands.com to discuss his two primary bands—and makes a strong case that String Cheese Incident’s Michael Kang is responsible for current electronica king Bassnectar’s long-term success.
Though it is only the beginning of the year, you already have plans with a number of different projects, including EOTO and String Cheese Incident. Can you start by giving us some info on what EOTO has on tap for the next few months?
Well, this year we have some cool stuff coming up, and it looks like [at some point] we’re going to Moscow and do a show there [ed not, as of press time the show has not been scheduled]. And that’s a big deal because we haven’t done that many international shows outside of Canada. So we are super excited about getting over there. We’re really working on a bigger EOTO production set-up. For our upcoming tour we’re going to have a 17-foot lotus flower. Travis and I are going to set up inside of it and have a 3D map of it outside so it feels a space-time traveler type of setup. We want to make it feel like you’re lifting off the planet and going through space and landing on another planet—exploring the terrain or going underwater and trying to map out the lotus flower so it sometimes seems like leaves are blowing. It has an alien skin on it or a titanium skin. We’re just trying to make it like a little shape-shifter.
How did the idea of a Moscow gig come about?
Well, our manager, Coast II Coast, also does Shpongle and Infected Mushroom. And both of those groups are quite big internationally. Especially if you look at Infected Mushroom’s schedule: one weekend night they are in Tel Aviv, then the next they are in Rio and then Berlin or something like that. It’s ridiculous. So [our manager] Ron Rivlin knows a lot of the overseas people. So when he was talking to them about Infected Mushroom he said, “I have this other group that would be great.” And, you know, it’s just whether people want to take a chance on having us go over there because it’s not like we have any hit songs or anything. So they have to buy into the “it’s all improvised but it’s just as badass as anything vibe.”
Electronic music is so huge in Europe, Tel Aviv and the Middle Eastern countries in general it pop music over there.
It really is and that’s one of the reasons why I think we’ll go over well because it has been their pop music for a long time. They kind of freak out when they see people playing it live. The DJ thing is one thing but they haven’t seen many bands play that type of music live out there.
When you guys started playing in EOTO the jam and electronic scenes had started to merge but were nowhere near as blended as they are today. Is there a point where you felt your String Cheese fans first accepted your new direction?
Oh, yeah. Well, that was an interesting evolution because when we first started EOTO, we were excited about the project and when we did our first couple of tours people thought of it as “Jason and Travis from String Cheese.” So we got String Cheese fans coming out and saying, “I’m curious, let’s see this project.” But I think almost 90 percent of those fans thought we were going to do something like a Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann’s The Rhythm Devils thing. And all of a sudden they get to the show, and I’m playing drums, Travis is playing basic keyboards and there are two computers onstage. We heard so many people tell us “this isn’t real music” but we were doing what we were doing and decided to go with it.
So in a sense those first couple of tours we got a lot of String Cheese fans who would be open to seeing us and then they kind of wouldn’t see us anymore. But a lot of the younger fans were like, “Oh wow, I get what’s going on and this is a neat thing.” So it’s very much rebuilding an audience which we’re proud of. And I would say most of it still is a jamband audience but when we’ll play in St. Louis or some specific regions where we play some raves, all of sudden those kids will come to our show when we come back through that area. So it has become a nice mix.
Though EOTO’s repertoire is comprised completely of improvisations, you did record a studio album a few years back. Do you plan to record another studio disc or document your sound in a different way?
We definitely need to get something out there. I think one of the things that we’re thinking right now is to multi-track ourselves but then give it out to Bassnectar or The Glitch Mob and have them remix our live performance. There’s something about that scene where—when everyone’s remixing each other’s stuff—there’s an association thing. And that permeates throughout that whole electronic community. So if they start seeing our name associated with those acts—not necessarily in an opening band sense but in a collaboration sense—then it really translates with that audience.
In a sense, kind of like a virtual sit-in.
Yeah, absolutely. And in that sense we still have our recorded super-improvised performance and they’re taking those tracks and doing whatever with them. So, that’s a goal. We’ll see how soon that can come together.
Last year you released a highlight album of live improvisations. Were you and Travis involved in the selection of the jams on that album?
No. Travis and I had nothing to do with it, actually. We have these two kids—I call them kids but they are kind of a little bit older now—Brian and Heath who have been archiving all our music since probably our second year of being together. And as many shows as we successfully record, they go through all of them and they figure out what sounds like a song and we just let them name the song. They will give it some Dr. Seuss-type of name and we let them have fun with it. So they hear everything that we’ve recorded and they’re really, sort of the best judges in terms of what we should release. Since they are not at the shows they have a good sense of what’s coming across in terms of the recording quality.
Once the improvisational is documented—whether it’s for professional release or just for your own archives—and it has a name and an identity, do you ever try to return to those themes?
Not really. I mean, if anything in the theme world, certain sounds that Travis might come up with on the keyboard happen almost by themselves. By the time he goes through all the different accompaniment parts it really turns into a different song. So, we might have a couple of times a night where there’s sort of a Middle Eastern sounding section or a couple of times that are kind of a reggae sounding section. But, you know, it’s pretty hard to pick out some similar themes and recreate them and since we don’t practice any of that stuff it can’t help but be different, you know? And we’ve had some people ask us to do some songs off the records, and we probably couldn’t do it even if we tried.
Finding that right sound and all the different individual parts all of a sudden sounds like so much work to re-learn all that stuff. Almost like in that sense it would be fun to have a backing track and not think about it at this point. But, you know, our thing is just doing everything live and in front of people.
One thing that you’ve done live and in front of people is, kind of, you were a drummer for many years and I know Travis played guitar but now he plays keyboards and a lot of different effects that were new to him when the band when the band first started. As he’s kind of, discovered new, um, maybe just become more comfortable on his instrument to be found that it shifted the band’s sound in one way or another?
Sure, yeah, absolutely. Especially with that keyboard thing and especially when we started playing dubstep there was a renewed interest in, like, “how the hell do you get that sound, and him trying to be like a scientist and figure it out. Both of us really were tweaking synths and seeing what’s going on. But he would really dive in and get a really nice sound system set up so he could, you know, really go from what he’s hearing on the records. It’s like a whole other art form with sound design and stuff. There are guys in the movies that just do sound design a lot because it’s a bitch. It’s a bitch to dig into, manipulate and stuff.
When did you guys first discover dubstep? I know it’s such a huge cultural thing at this point, even like Britney Spears has a dubstep remix now.
We can pinpoint it to an exact moment. In 2008, we did this festival called Shambhala and there was a DJ named Skream who was playing there. And Skream and Benga are kind of like the originators of dubstep. But when dubstep was around in the early 2000s it was very mellow. Like if you were at a rave and you went to the dubstep tent it’s all couches and people like…
People lying down…
Yeah, all super blissed out and getting a warm massage by the bass things. But Skream kind of graduated it into this aggressive sound. And when that aggressive sound hit it’s kind of like the same thing that happened to the drum and bass, all of sudden everyone’s just trying to be gnarly and dig in. It’s had its evolutions…
But anyways, in 2008 we saw him do this one drop that just leveled the place—3,000 people up on this stage called the Village, which is one of the best sound systems on the planet. And it hit so hard me and Travis weren’t in the same place but we were at it at the same time and we both remember that exact one, like “Did you see? What was that?”
And after that show—it just so happened that before Shambhala I downloaded this dubstep mix by this guy SPL out of Portland—he just instantly became one our biggest influences because it was like two and half hours of just such a great set. We listened to that thing over and over and over between Shambhala and our next gig which was like Whitefish, Montana. So we were like, well, let’s try it on the next gig and see what happens. And we kind of didn’t have it together, but it felt so different when we hit that first drop because in the States they hadn’t heard any of that. Bassnectar was bass orientated but it wasn’t gnarly wobbles and stuff like that. So it was pretty cool to see it in Canada. We both thought, “it’s really going to do something in the States or why hasn’t it come to the States like that.”
It was the calm before the storm…
Yeah, so that was very impactful. At least to be like, let’s do it even if nobody else is…and there’s almost still no live bands doing dubstep. We kind of pride ourselves on feeling like we sort of, I don’t want to say discovered it, but dove into it early and were able to perform it live. It’s been a fun journey.
And the next year at Shambhala we saw Excision and he did a kind of legendary set out there, too, where it was just like the best of thing the whole weekend. Bassnectar is king out there and this dude just destroyed everything. It kind of just ruined the weekend for everyone because it was kind of like nothing quite got to that level again [Laughter.]. So we felt like that was more reaffirmation that it was going to be a good journey for us.
It is funny, the first time I think I actually heard of Bassnectar was when he was on Jam Cruise with Michael Kang in 2004 or 2005.
2005, yeah! That was my first Jam Cruise. And it was billed as Kang with Bassnectar—Kan was kind of the draw. I was on the boat with Kyle Hollingsworth, playing in his band.
Right, I was like who is this other guy and how did they, you know, get together?
Yeah, exactly. And what a unique sound! Because that shit was only on the playa at Burning Man and West Coast.
In many ways Kang discovered Bassnectar and brought him into the rock/jam scene. How did they first meet?
Oh, they’ve known each other for a long time. Kang and Travis would go out to Burning Man and Lorin (Bassnectar) has been king of Burning Man for a while. So you know, this is like, pre-2000—I think since 1997 they’ve kind of known him. And him and Kang were good friends. A lot of credit has to be given to Kang for bringing Bassnectar onto the festival scene because he ended up opening for String Cheese a little bit. And I remember I had this conversation with Lorin, at Sea of Dreams or something like that, and he’s like, “How do I make kids do that?” You know? Because of the way people got down so hard on one of the String Cheese bluegrass breaks. I just remember Lorin’s quote exactly” “I want to make them do that!” So it was a pretty cool evolution of how that came about.
And just as a side note, after that Kang and Bassnectar thing, we actually started the Jam Room on Jam Cruise. I think it was in the Blue Lounge or something like that on the old ship. After that was done playing, me and Travis and I think Jamie Janover were still all awake and we’re like, “Well, fuck. Now what do we do?” I forgot who mentioned it necessarily but it’s like, but my gear was over in this ‘jam room area’ so we said, “Let’s turn it on. Let’s turn the PA on and get going.” And that’s when [Jam Cruise’s now trademark] Jam Room started. Me and Travis just set up and went for it. But on the way to it we felt like we were carrying a flag to it like, “Everyone go to the jam room!” You know, it’s like 4 AM or something. “Let’s go!” And then guys started coming down and then the rest of the week it was like more and more, it just became the thing.
It was a seminal night for the scene.
Kind of, yeah yeah! Definitely for Jam Cruise so, that was cool. That’s a pride factor. I went into the Jam Room for a bit this year [on Jam Cruise]. They had some really good drummers in there—I really like Jam Cruise a lot, especially things like the Jam Room. Just meeting some good people because, usually, you’re watching them from the stage. I’m usually kind of shy about the whole thing—I don’t like to say, “My name’s Jason. You should know me, let’s jam” And it always feels weird. I just like to watch for the most part. But you know, with the Jam Room it feels like it has that openness that you can just get up there and play.
String Cheese Incident reunited in 2010 and went on their first tour in a number of years this past fall. Now that you all have your own solo projects, do you feel like String Cheese has managed to find its identity, instead of being pulled between all these different styles?
Exactly. It’s kind of one of the reasons why I ended up joining String Cheese [in the first place]. They knew I could play the traditional percussion stuff—the pop—and the kind of Herbie Hancock-style of percussion. But when I joined they also asked me if I knew about programming and electronic music because by that time it was 2004. Bassnectar had already opened for String Cheese a couple of times, and Sound Tribe was definitely having their own thing solidified—electronic music was already coming into the scene and String Cheese was playing some of that. Sound Tribe and the Disco Biscuits were probably the first evolution of that whole deal, where a jamband got a DJ to open for them.
As we started incorporating it into String Cheese, I was finding my role in the band and I would say, “I’ll do whatever you guys want.” They would say, “Let’s get some electronic programming on this jam” and I was good to go. As EOTO started doing its thing, we didn’t do it as much with String Cheese—we kind of just went with the flow. It was like, “do we really want to incorporate any more electronic music? It’s this new fresh thing and we can’t pull it off.” And Kang, for the most part, initially, when were hitting some new jam, would say, “Let’s do some programming on it.”
But as the evolution of that has gone along, it’s like a new toy to play with. Like, “Let’s try to play with it.” And as the evolution of that went on and, like you said, everyone did their own other projects, we don’t necessarily put it out there to be like, “Oh, let’s do programming on this.” But there’s kind of a group collective feeling that we should do something different with this song or that song, and programming definitely played into all of that. If you listen to Kyle’s last two records there’s a ton of programming on it because he got all Beck-a-fied, you know? And so it’s spread pretty evenly around.
And then we have a new song out called “BollyMunster.” It is a new, Indian-influenced song but it totally came from [bluegrass purist] Billy Nershi playing this line and stuff like that and being like, “What can we do? Can we do something different with it?” And I’m like, “Well, I used to play Bachata music and I did a CD of that.” So we kind of added this Bollywood music to this idea of Billy’s. So I was like, “OK, I’ll get some music and we’ll listen to it. And let’s arrange to, like, kind of like ‘Valley of the Jig,’ where it’s a new song based on a traditional, real song.” But we added our own arrangement to it and did something completely different to it.
In our String Cheese feature for Relix last year, you mentioned that one new style the band had been toying with since reuniting was African music. I think several members of the band cited that as an example of how the band is still experimenting with different styles, despite playing less shows together.
Yeah, I think one of the interesting and kind of difficult parts about it was that when we throw an electronic jam onto established music that the fans already love and hold dear, they didn’t like it because they were used to a certain way hearing that song. So when we placed some new programming on top of it a lot of String Cheese fans would say, “Noooo! They’ve abandoned us!” Or something like that…
But I think with the new stuff and new arrangements people respond better because they never heard that song in another way. A song like “BollyMunster” really was introduced the right way as opposed to an organic song that people felt like we turned into this techno thing.
Do you have a favorite show from String Cheese Incident’s recent Roots Run Deep tour?
There’s some of that but I’m always trying to bring the A-Game every night. But, Philly stands out as really, really strong for some reason. It just felt like everything clicked so hard on, both in terms of the on-stage vibe and how the crowd was into it as well as the venue. It was one of those things where it felt like it all came together.
Also, the Chicago nights felt really good. I mean, there were a lot of really good things about it. Something about the St. Louis show really stands out only because the power went out and it was something different that we were just like, alright let’s make this stuff go, you know. And that ended up being a lot of fun because we never get to do anything like that.
True percussion jam?
Yeah, yeah! Exactly. And uh, so lots of, you know, little stand out things. But probably a whole complete show maybe Philly might have been the one for me.
