Photo by Stuart Levine
Jackie Greene was already an accomplished solo artist when Phil Lesh asked him to join Phil & Friends in 2006. Since that time, the singer/songwriter/guitarist/keyboardist has drifted toward the center of the Grateful Dead universe, and he currently is one of the few musicians involved in projects with both Lesh and Bob Weir. His solo work has also opened up sonically to reflect the conscious, psychedelic American visions so core to the Grateful Dead’s ethos. This year Greene added another feather to his cap when he joined The Black Crowes as their new touring guitarist. During the Crowes’ spring run, Greene spoke with us about his new gig, connection to the Grateful Dead family and upcoming solo plans.
Let’s start by talking about your next solo album. I know that a couple of months ago you posted something on your website that you were doing your last solo shows at Sweetwater but that you’re also working on your next studio project, and I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about where that is in the process?
Sure, well I actually started recording it last summer – just at my home studio. We ended up going on the road for quite a bit and I didn’t get as much done on at as I would have liked.
The reality of it was that I wasn’t really totally pleased with the result that I was getting on the stuff, so I put it on the backburner for a bit and went on the road. And between that time and now, I got the call to join The Black Crowes, which I did, and now I don’t really anticipate coming back to working on that record probably until the end of this summer. Which means it’s probably not going to be available until next year at this point.
It’s just a matter of, like, you know, going out and working on the road and having to pay the bills and all that stuff.
In terms of the songs that are on this album, have you been playing those live or are you keeping it as a studio project for now?
Well, a couple of them—I’m trying to think of what’s new—it’s hard to keep balls straight. Yeah, definitely a couple of the songs that I was planning to put on the record we’ve played live, but there’s a great deal of them—at least over half of them—that I was anticipating on putting on the record that are brand new and no one’s ever heard. And that’s what I say now. I mean, there might be, you know, when I get down to recording, there might be half-a-dozen or a dozen new songs between now and then, as well. I always keep myself open to the idea that there might be more songs coming in. You know, some songs are written at the very last minute, right before recording. It’s hard to say.
My initial thought was that back last summer when I started recording, a couple of the songs weren’t songs that I’d take live. Or I’ve got a YouTube version or something like that. But they didn’t come out exactly the way I wanted them to. I got real anal about the whole thing, and you know, I’m not on a label – I’m not under any pressure to put a record out right away, so I’m gonna try to take my time and not force anything at this point.
I know for your past couple albums, you’ve worked with a range of different producers, some of whom have been your musical collaborators, and some are just veteran producers – are you planning to work with any name producers on this project or do it yourself with your own production team?
No, I think I’d like to work with a producer this time. I’m not really sure who, but I definitely think I want to try to get out of my own space to do it.
As you said, you have a lot of projects going on. The other thread that’s been going through your career in the last few years is your work with Phil Lesh and now Bob Weir. Can you talk a little about your relationship with them at this point? Phil was the first member of the Grateful Dead that you worked with on a regular basis, and now you’ve been touring with Bob Weir, as well. I was wondering if you could talk about the dynamic of playing with the two of them and how that’s influenced you as a songwriter and as a musician. I know you were somewhat familiar with The Dead’s canon when you joined Phil & Friends, but now I feel like you’ve been such a part of that family that I’m sure things have rubbed off on you, musically.
When I first started playing with Phil, I actually didn’t know many Grateful Dead songs at all. I knew maybe half a dozen of them? Like “Casey Jones” or “Friend of the Devil” – you know, stuff like that. But after playing with Phil for all those years, I learned so much music. And I mean not even just Grateful Dead music – just a lot of music that he played. It can’t help but make you a better musician. If you come out of that not being any better than you were, then there’s something really wrong. It’s almost impossible to play with those players at that level and not have it rub off. And me, I’m like a little sponge, so I’m always learning from everybody that I play with. And definitely song-wise – you know, it took me a couple years but I turned into a Dead Head. What gets me more than anything is the songs. That’s what sets the Dead apart from any other quote-unquote jamband to me: The Dead have fucking amazing songs. And those songs can be played by any band, anywhere, and they’re still great. And that’s just what gets me.
And Phil – Phil is, like, one of the most generous, loving…he’s just a wonderful dude. You can’t say enough good things about him. And Bob is the exact same way. Although they’re very different guys. You know what I mean? Bob kind of likes to watch football and hang out with the boys. But they’re both such great musicians. I just feel real lucky to even be involved in that scene – even on a small level – and I’ve been lucky enough to be involved on a big level for many years. So, it’s just a real blessing.
In terms of your own songwriting, not only has playing with members of The Dead taught you that canon of music, but it brought all this other great American music into your repertoire. Would you say that there are specific examples of your own solo material in the last few years that have been influenced by that time?
Yeah, definitely the very last record that I made, called Till the Light Comes – that was, I mean that came right after a heavy Phil and Friends – you know, several tours, so there’s a lot of things, musically, on that record that are seriously Grateful Dead-influenced. Sonically and lyrically. Just, you know, like, for example, there’s a song called “A Moment of Temporary Color.” In my mind, I was doing a nod to “Bird Song” because thematically, it was sort of the same. And I always loved “Bird Song.” You know, after learning it and playing, it was, like – ‘God I fucking love this song!
So you wrote your own tribute to it in a sense…
Yeah, I made my own. And there are a lot of songs on that record that have these codas, these alternate musical endings. I mean, that’s a thing I learned from playing with Phil: A lot of their songs have these drastically different parts. And that’s something that never really even occurred to me that it was okay. And it turns out that it is okay and, in fact, some people really like it. And me being one of those people…
The tension with that is that a lot of my core fans didn’t really get that. They didn’t see it. They thought it was weird or maybe it was a little too heavy. I don’t know. Some of them didn’t really like that record, I don’t think.
Photo by Tamara Lee
You are on the road with The Black Crowes. How did you first get involved with The Crowes and find yourself becoming a touring member of the band?
Well, they called me. Steve Gorman called me and asked me if I would be interested in playing guitar for their tour this year. And my first thought was, like, well – I was just super flattered that they’d even consider me. And then I went from going, “Oh God, I can’t do it” to “Yes, I can do it. It’d be so awesome,” to finally realizing that it’s another challenge for me, just the same way when I was playing with Phil, and that it’s only going to make me a better musician and I’m just going to go for it. And here we are. We had a couple rehearsals and I spent about a month learning some songs. And…and we’re out. Out on the road. So far, it’s been really awesome. The band is super hot.
During The Crowes’ hiatus, you actually found yourself playing steadily with two of the three remaining founding members of the band…
Yeah, totally. I’ve known Chris [Robinson] for several years, now. I met Chris through Phil. And Steve and I have a band together called Trigger Hippy, which includes Joan Osborne. And [new keyboardist] Adam [MacDougall] had just recently started playing with Phil, as well. So, I’ve played with all of them. In some form or another, we’ve known each other for a long time, so it really isn’t that far-fetched…
How familiar were you with The Black Crowes’ catalog before you got the call and jumped in it?
I mean I grew up on Shake Your Money Maker and Southern Harmony – I think I was twelve when it came out. You know I loved The Black Crowes when I was a kid because back at that time, there weren’t as many straight-up rock bands. And boy bands had just started to take off. Music just started to go one direction or the other, and I went in the rock-and-roll direction.
In terms of different challenges for your own playing, it’s interesting that in The Crowes, you’re playing lead guitar. In a lot of the other projects you’re involved in, a lot of the times it’s focused on your voice as a singer. Have you felt that you’ve really had to practice sick guitar solo licks that maybe you haven’t done as much in some of these more folk settings that you’ve been playing in recently?
Um, no. I wouldn’t practice. It’s one thing to practice a motif of a song – those I’ll get. But in terms of, like, somebody’s solo on a record – I wouldn’t copy that. And I never have, because there’s no reason to do that. For one thing, it’s too much work. And the other thing is it’s certainly not necessary. Real organic music changes every time you play it live. There’s really no sense in doing the exact same solo, you know what I mean?
The motif of a song – a lick or a riff – yeah, fine. Phil would say, “Hey, Jerry used to play this little lick here. Can somebody play that?” And we’d go, “Okay” – we’d figure it out. And it’s the same with The Crowes: there are some things that are sort of specific and some things – most solo sections are not specific. And that’s rock music, you know?
For you as a fan of their music, how does it feel to be in the guitar seat for this band you grew up with? And now you have a chance to be on the road with and make your own?
Well it’s great, man. This band is a true rock and roll band, you know. It’s loud and it’s got a lot of electric guitars and when you’re a kid and you learn how to play guitar, that’s everything you want to be. So it feels really good for me. I’m still really very flattered that they even thought about me in that light. So I’m just doing the best I can, you know.
Shifting focus a little bit, is Trigger Hippy working on anything now?
As a matter of fact, we just – God, what was it – February or January, we just recorded. And we’re planning on releasing something for Record Store Day in November, providing we can finish it up in time.
And can you talk a little bit about those live recordings? Where were they recorded?
Let me make sure I get this right, because I’m not sure which ones we actually used. They were both recorded in the Bay Area – that much I know. I think one of them is an acoustic track from a run I did at the Swedish American Hall in San Francisco – we recorded all those shows, and they came out fantastically. At some point, we’re going to use all of them. And I think the other is from Sweetwater.
Being that you started playing with these people in your 20s and now you’ve crossed the line into your 30s, have you felt that there was a time when you’ve gone from being the young guy to just a member of the band in some of these situations, or does it not really matter?
I guess, I don’t know – all of these situations, The Crowes and Phil – you know, even in my band, I’m the youngest. Actually, no, our drummer is younger than me. But, you know, I mean I’ve always been the youngest, which is weird to me, because now I’m 32 and I feel like I’m getting old but, you know, I’ll always be younger than Chris and those guys, and I’ll always be younger than Phil. You know, I have to say, in those situations – particularly with Phil – there doesn’t really feel like there’s any weird age thing, because it’s more like there is a brotherhood that’s sort of really apparent there. I mean Phil’s a big kid, you know. I mean, he acts like an adult. But Bob acts like he’s 25. There’s definitely a brotherhood. It doesn’t feel like they’re your parents or anything. You’re all making music, it’s all very – [there’s] a lot of mutual respect.
I don’t know, I never really noticed. You know, until they start talking about something that happened in ‘72.
You’re like, “I was, uh, negative 10…”
Yeah, I don’t remember 1972 – I could read about it on Wikipedia, though.
You know, it’s funny, if you look at all these legendary bands – like The Allman Brothers and the Dead – they were making this music when they were 25, and you’re 32, but yet somehow 32 feels young now for rock music even though back in the day that felt old.
Yeah, that’s true. Back then, you know, bands could put out two records per year. Any person who puts out a CD this year, that’s a double album, [in the ‘60s and ‘70s] albums were thirty-something minutes. So people felt the need to fill up the CD. And I don’t necessarily agree with that. I kind of still like to think in terms of albums. I mean, you know, album-albums: vinyl albums. But yeah, there’s a whole business. There used to be one way to do it. Now there’s a million ways and they’re all either wrong or right.
This relates to my last question. One of the ways you’ve been able to maneuver the business is by playing with so many different people. Obviously you have your own solo career with your own band and you have all these other projects and your own studio, so for you, I’m sure it’s like a divide-and-conquer approach for lack of a better way of saying it…
Yeah, and that’s not even by design. That’s just by circumstance. I’ve sort of learned to, you know, when opportunities present themselves – particularly with this business – if it seems right, you ought to take it. The worst that can happen is that you become a better musician, a better songwriter, [get] better at your craft. And that’s all I ever really set out to do to begin with. You know, when I started, it wasn’t like I necessarily wanted to be famous.
It’s different now, because you don’t have to go playing big. You know, like, YouTube is everybody’s best promoter. So you don’t have to put in all the work, anymore. And I’m still into putting in the work because the people that I like, and the bands that I like, and the music that I really love – there’s a lot of fucking effort put into just being able to be like that. There’s a quick fix for every walk of life and I just don’t subscribe to it.
