Few music forums have made as large an impact on the jamband scene over the past decade as the Yahoo! Group the NYC-Freaks List. Started by a Long Island-based scientist named Aaron Stein—a music fan who first carved a small place in Phish lore when Trey Anastasio acknowledged him from the stage at Clifford Ball for riding the rail every show of the band’s summer tour—as a way to meet likeminded music fans in New York, the Freaks List has grown to include several hundred regular concertgoers, musicians, writers, promoters, managers and other passionate music fans.
While not as heavily trafficked as many public message boards, the invite only list’s active members have helped propel the likes of Robert Randolph & the Family Band, the Benevento/Russo Duo, Bustle in Your Hedgerow, RANA and others to national recognition. The band’s annual party The Freaks Ball has also grown with New York’s live music community to boast performances by the likes of Robert Randolph & the Family Band, The Benevento/Russo Duo, RANA, The New Mastersounds, Apollo Sunshine, Chris Harford & Band of Changes featuring Dean Ween, Ollabelle, American Babies, Skerik, Mike Dillon, Bustle in Your Hedgerow and many others. After bouncing between venues for a few years, this year the Freaks Ball lands at New York’s Sullivan Hall on January 23. In addition to Metzger, who will debut a new project for the occasion, the lineup will feature New Orleans slide guitarist Anders Osborne and Hoboken, NJ rockers the Black Hollies. Below, Stein and Freaks List moderator JR Hevron discuss the list’s evolution, this year’s Freaks Ball and the challenges of keeping over 400 internet denizens engaged and focused.
First off, can you start by giving us a little background about when and how the Freaks List was first conceived?
A: Essentially, I started the Freaks list because I was sick of going out to see music by myself. When I first moved down to the area, I had a few friends in town who’d go out to see music with me, but not as often as I’d have liked. I was seeing a lot of the same people out at shows so I knew I wasn’t the only one. Around the same time I was pretty heavily involved with the Spreadnet and there were a few that were living in NYC as well and we’d hang out every once in a while. After one particularly raging evening at the Wetlands seeing the Justice League of America with Jimmy Herring, I knew there was a community in waiting and the NYC-Freaks list was born. That was 10 years ago this week.
The Freaks List started with a focus on Widespread Panic. Is the list’s name a reference to any particular show or comment from the band?
A: Not consciously, no. Yes, the initial kernel of the list were certainly Panic freaks, but my vision extended beyond that group to music freaks of all shapes and sizes. I specifically didn’t want to call the list something “Panic” or “WSP.” We’re all freaks and all freaks are welcome on the NYC-Freaks list (provided they pass a rigorous hazing period).
JR: I never really attributed it to Panic. The whole notion of freaks goes way back to the Grateful Dead and likely beyond that. I was never a huge Panic fan, but I got onto the Freaks List pretty early on. I started the Galactic-NY list (offshoot of the national Galactic list) for the same reasons. I kept seeing cross postings to NYC-Freaks and realized that I should get on. It immediately opened up my music world. I suddenly knew all of the people that I had been seeing out at shows by name. There were so many like-minded hard core music people out there who didn’t even know that they were waiting for something like the NYC-Freaks to come along. Since the list started, I don’t think that I’ve ever gone to a show where I didn’t know at least one person.
The members of the NYC-Freaks are credited with helping launch the career of Robert Randolph. He even wrote a song about the NYC-Freaks. How did you initially hear about Robert and how would you say the list helped develop his career?
A: Personally, the first time I heard of Robert was the first time I heard him which was playing with MMW on Halloween in 2000. I was sort of blown away, but didn’t think much about the guy or his own music. He had actually played with NMAS a month earlier—a show I didn’t go to—that had a lot of folks on the list buzzing. That November he had a sort of residency at the Lakeside Lounge that I was lucky enough to hit a couple of times and I really fell head-over-heels in love with his music.
We were lucky enough to get him to play the Freaks Ball and actually booked him for a few legendary shows in 2001 and 2002. It was the passion for his music from members on the list that really provided the fuel for Robert as he went from a talented musician to a full-fledged star. I think the most important thing that we did for Robert’s career is that we provided a catalyst for him. When you have 100-200 of the most passionate, vocal, addictive music fans going rabid for you at the start of a music career that you aren’t even sure exists yet, it helps quite a bit. There’s little doubt in my mind that the Freaks gave the confidence to Robert to quit his day job and pursue his dream.
At the same time, Robert helped turn the Freaks list into something more than just a bunch of music fans.
JR: The whole Randolph thing was inspiring to watch. There was something raw and vibrant and old-school and untouched about his music at that point. And everyone had that experience of feeling like they were getting in on the ground floor of this big secret and rallying around it. I was there for some of the of the Lakeside Lounge shows and was totally blown away.
When did you come up with the idea of the Freaks Ball and who were some of the other music fans you invited to that event? I believe it was initially opened to members of the Galactic and String Cheese mailing lists.
A: Pretty much purely by word of mouth the Freaks list grew pretty quickly in the first year and proved to be a community of real people, not just random email addresses in your inbox every day. As the one-year anniversary came around I thought it would be fun to do a kind of private party and, of course, have some live music as part of it if possible. It was pretty ad hoc, but we did have enough connections and know-how through the list to actually throw together an actual Freaks “gig” at Tribeca Blues. We got The Squad (sort of a Lettuce offshoot) to headline and then were able to secure Robert Randolph.
We definitely invited whomever we could—I saw the party as both a celebration of what we were and as a vehicle for attracting more like-minded people. Definitely they came from the Galactic-NY group and String Cheese and Spreadnet, etc.
I think we just broke even that first time, so thanks to everyone who showed up. That’s been the other obvious reason for spreading the word.
JR: There are a lot of legendary stories about this night. I wasn’t involved in the planning, but I was at the Ball. It had a special feel from the start and the tradition of terrible, snowy weather began that night too. I don’t want to jinx anything, but it looks like we may actually have some decent weather this year.
Can you pinpoint a time when the list developed from a group of friends to a larger community-members of whom first met through the list?
A: Frankly, I think it was almost immediate. The list really started as a bunch of acquaintances who became friends. That initial bunch of us got along quite well, but we added to our numbers quickly as we all brought aboard new friends and so on. There was an interesting balance between the anonymity of the internet—people trash talking and some very explicit banter—and the real-life hanging out at shows.
JR: I would agree that it was immediate. A lot of people were looking for something like the Freaks list. And it helped that most of us were in the Wetlands at least once a week.
Over the years the Freaks Ball has taken place everywhere from tiny clubs to the Bowery Ballroom. What are some of the challenges you’ve faced with booking the event and finding a proper venue for the show?
A: There have been innumerable annoyances and challenges along the way each and every year we have the Freaks Ball no matter where it is and who we are dealing with. Most of them fall under a single heading: we music lovers, we are not in the music business; we want to put on a big party, we do not want to make money. Although it’s not obvious at first, these ideas conflict pretty drastically in the real world and so headaches ensue. In the end, the party is always “best ever” category, but we scratch to break even or, most often, lose money. Of course, you know we are true freaks for this stuff, because we continue to inflict the torture of booking, promoting, dealing every year… but just once a year, thank you.
In the end, sadly, I’ve learned to trust very few people who’ve made a career in the music “business.” Except the people who are actually making the music, the musicians are the best.
JR: It’s a big challenge every year. We always set out with a game plan and by the time that the actual ball happens, it’s totally different. In the end, though, I think that the “right” bands end up playing for that year.
One thing that we have learned is that bigger isn’t always better. It’s tempting to try and do a really big show with a really big band at a really big venue and not worry about money. But it gets away from the point of the thing, which is to have one show and one party where everyone that you randomly see out throughout the year will be gathered in the same spot to hang out.
Do you each have a personal favorite Freaks Ball?
A: I really do love them all, sometimes for different reasons. There was a certain magic to the 2nd Freaks Ball at the old North Six that hasn’t been recreated yet. Robert Randolph starting late and entering a crazy “don’t stop playing/play all night” zone that coupled with some wild energy in the room.
The Ball has been on my birthday three times, and those were some of the most fun times I’ve had seeing live music.
JR: I’ve enjoyed them all for different reasons. For that second one, I was actually back home in New Orleans for Mardi Gras as it was that same weekend. I remember texting Aaron to wish him good luck with it all as we were on a pre-parade Popeye’s run.
My favorite set, though, was Chris Hartford and the Band of Changes with Dean Ween. Hartford had been playing around a bunch that year and his regular Band of Changes at the time was hot: Scott Metzger, Dave Dreiwitz, and Joe Russo. A week before the ball, I got an email from Ween’s manager Greg that Deaner was going to come down. Every year we talk about getting people to sit in and collaborate and do our best to control the forces of nature, but this time, it just happened. I’m not sure who talked Deaner into it as he drove in from PA just for the show. That first set just had a crispy, crackling, bouncy thing that happens when the musicians on stage are gelling perfectly and riding out the music. The music seemed so easy and natural that it was a like a spell had been temporarily cast over the stage at Southpaw.
Another band the NYC-Freaks helped discover is the Benevento-Russo Duo. Obviously Joe Russo had been a staple on the New York club circuit for a while, but do you remember a time in which the Duo’s name started popping up on the list with regularity?
A: By the time Joe and Marco started playing together at the (old) Knitting Factory Tap Bar on Thursday nights, I believe it was spring 2002, there were enough people on the list with enough NYC-live-music savvy that things like this didn’t stay off the radar for too long. When I first started going to see them on a regular basis, there were usually 5-10 people in the room, half of them NYC-Freaks. Of course, we did our best to build some buzz and that number increased pretty quickly.
That was the one band I had to have play the next Freaks Ball. Through a set of circumstances, it ended up that Randolph would play for us at the Bowery Ballroom which seems kind of crazy to think about now. Robert was big enough that the thing kind of took care of itself and I had very little to do with the Ball that year, but my stipulation was that I would pick any bands I wanted in support. They were the Duo and RANA — certainly the first time either played the Bowery.
JR: Definitely during their Thursday night residency in the Tap Room. It was like a weekly private party for the freaks, perfectly capped off with a post-show get together at the nearby Dakota Roadhouse
Likewise, the NYC-Freaks has championed RANA and guitarist Scott Metzger’s various projects. Did you first discover RANA from its days playing weekly shows at Wetlands?
A: That is definitely when I personally discovered them, but for some reason during that stretch I wasn’t really a fan. There were lots of folks on the list crazy into RANA but somehow they’d rubbed me the wrong way at some point when I’d poked my head in on them in the old Wetlands lounge. I do regret that, because a couple years later after the Wetlands had closed I fell passionately in love with them. Scott Metzger is the all-time NYC-Freaks champ and will be making his 8th straight appearance at the Freaks Ball on Saturday, which is kind of insane. I wouldn’t have it any other way — it wouldn’t be the Freaks Ball without Metzger. Don’t be late!
JR: I first really heard them at the Wetlands and remember emailing the Freaks list the next day asking, “Why didn’t anyone tell me that RANA was the best band ever!” It was one of those Wetlands nights where everyone seemed to have the same experience. I think that they played “Backstage Pass” three times that night.
Metzger is an all-time NYC-Freaks champ. I think that many of us feel like we’ve been seeing Metzger from the start and would like nothing more than for his success to match his talent.
Like the jamband scene in general, the NYC-Freaks list has expanded to include news and information about a number of indie rock bands. Can you pinpoint a general time period in which indie rock groups started popping up on the list with regularity?
A: It would be tough for me to peg it down to a specific time for the list. There had always been a bit of a leak into bands like Wilco and Ryan Adams early on, so I think the progression was gradual and still continues on. Personally, I think I became more open to music outside the jam realm right around the same time that the Wetlands closed — not sure if that’s irony, coincidence or just natural.
JR: There have always been people on the list who have diverse music tastes. I think that’s part of what has allowed the list to endure for so long. Certainly the indie band discussion opened up more during the McPanic and Phish hiatus years when many people were forced to look beyond the jam scene.
The NYC-Freaks list is now far more than a Widespread Panic fan group. What band would you say currently sparks on the most discussion on the list?
A: Could there be any other? It’s got to be Phish. It’s kind of sad actually.
JR: Phish, for sure. Then again, it’s been a pretty exciting comeback year for them and a lot of fans are invested in that for a myriad of reasons. Now that Phish is back for the long haul and a relatively known quantity, much of the speculative talk has died down. I think I personally lost a little bit of that checking-setlists-on-twitter-interest once we hit the NYE shows and it was obvious that they weren’t going to crash and burn.
What are some of the challengers in keeping the list focused and engaged? Have there been times when you have worried that the list was moving away from either its original focus of bands or music discussion in general?
A: We kind of set the tone early that almost anything goes on the list in terms of what’s discussed and how it’s discussed. I wouldn’t say it’s “self-regulating” but for whatever reason, there’s enough reason out there to guide us through those low moments. For those of us who have been on the list for 10 years now, it can be tedious having the bi-monthly “Phish is so much better than Panic” conversation, but for the most part I couldn’t be happier with the way it’s gone on for such a long time.
Like I said—the original focus was for people to have a community for getting together and seeing live music and it’s served that purpose and more. Everything else has been bonus.
JR: It can be a little bit tricky to head up a list like this. In many ways it’s completely uncontrollable (in the best way possible) yet somehow self-regulating in a way that something like PT is not. I attribute that to the fact that most of the folks on the list know each other in the real world. We do have quiet periods, though, and I try to keep the conversation going by asking people for weekend reviews, posing questions, or posting polls. People generally want to talk, but don’t always want to start the conversation. It’s like being at a show where there’s a 5 foot gap between the front of the stage and the crowd. Once one person heads in, the gap fills up fairly quickly. That’s kind of how I see my role on a list like this. I’ve never been worried about it moving away from any kind of focus. Pretty much any conversation is good conversation— and people are pretty vocal when they don’t like the conversation.
How many people are currently active on the Freaks List?
JR: As of right now, we have 444 members. There’s a core group of posters and a ton of lurkers. I’m always surprised how many chime in when I ask a question, though.
Is there a particular month or time period in which the list peaked in terms of posts-per-month?
A: Probably the whole year of 2001 was the “glory” period for the list—averaged over 2000 posts a month, which I think works out to almost 700 posts a day, including weekends!
JR: Like anything, though, you have to put those numbers in context. The number of posts in 2001 was staggering but a lot of it was back and forth jokey banter—not in-depth reviews of shows. Also, at that point many of the people on the list were either on team unemployed or otherwise at a place in their lives where they had the time to chat online all day. Then again, though those posts may not have had much substance, they largely set the tone for the list.
Finally, if there was one band you could realistically book for a future Freaks Ball who would it be?
A: The next great undiscovered band… whatever and wherever they might be.
JR: Phish! Just kidding. Every year is different and it’s hard to predict who the right band or person is. Case in point is Anders. We’ve tossed his name around for the past few years, but everything aligned and this was his year. Other than that, I totally agree with Aaron: I’d love to book some amazing, face-melting band that I don’t even know about yet.
