Trey Anastasio Band returned to the road this past Friday at the State Theatre in Portland, Maine on a winter Acoustic & Electric tour that will take them coast to coast, eventually ending up at the Fox Theatre in Oakland, California. The performances feature a solo Anastasio acoustic first set which includes members of TAB eventually showing up at the end of the set to lend a hand to the proceedings with their leader/frontman/composer. The second set is a more traditional electric onslaught, and appears to also be an audio and stylistic tour of the various songs throughout the TAB incarnations over the last 12 years dating back to 1999. For additional flavor, the Phish frontman has also been adding choice covers that have either never been played by the septet, or have long been shelved.
Jambands.com caught with TAB keyboardist Ray Paczkowski in Boston before a House of Blues gig later that evening. The Burlington musician has been involved in the majority of the eclectic configurations of Trey Anastasio’s solo projects since 2001, so his vantage point, not only from his keyboard seat, but over the years, is quite valuable. Paczkowski is an intelligent, amiable and humble man who refreshingly tells it like it is, but also appears to show why he has been able to blend various influences from Sun Ra to Beethoven to U2 into his own work. The man is a tireless performer, who actively seeks out gigs to replenish his own stylistic wheelhouse, as well as continue to refine a craft that appears to have no limits in an often challenging improvisational landscape.
RR: Last night, TAB played at Albany’s Palace Theatre. The last time I saw you there was when Trey was gearing back up again with a tour in October 2008.
RP: I like playing at the Palace. For one thing, the sound is really good there, really nice. There’s a big stage, and we’re able to pull back from the front a little bit. We always get a good and energetic crowd there.
RR: Whose idea was it to cover Gorillaz’s “Clint Eastwood” at the Palace?
RP: That came up when we were tossing around some covers. I forget who brought it up. I think Trey was thinking about it, and I think Jen had talked about it with him at some point, and just the name is so cool. (laughs) We played it a few times in New York in rehearsals; it’s a pretty straightforward thing. I don’t have to do anything, really. It’s all vocal work, and Jen grabbed on to the whole rap part.
RR: When I look at the first two setlists of the tour, it appears to be a culmination, a summation, of Trey’s various solo tours from 1999 to the present. You’ve been with Trey since 2001. Does it also appear to be a historical evolution of all of the styles and terrain that have been covered? How do you rehearse for that?
RP: Well, we did that run with just the four piece (in the fall of 2008). That was great because it was sort of getting back to the beginning of the band. We were doing a lot of the original material, and we sort of got that under our belts. Trey has a place where we can work out on the Hudson. This time, we were there for four days, and we put together a song list—stuff goes on; stuff goes off. This particular tour, he started picking out tunes from what I also think of as the “interim band”—between us now and when Russ and Tony left—and see what works, and what doesn’t. There’s a whole slew of material that was in that middle band that we hadn’t really played that much before, even with his own band, actually. I think he’s trying to get more of that out there. There’s some great songs. Over the four days of rehearsals, we touched on classic stuff like “Sand” and thing like that, and put more energy into the newer ‘older’ stuff.
RR: Trey has toyed with the solo acoustic format before, including inserting that sequence into the middle of the first set on past tours. But, on this tour, how does it feel to be sitting there while Trey is out on stage doing solo acoustic numbers, and you don’t get to show up until the end of the set?
RP: It’s different. There’s a lot of waiting around. (laughs)
RR: How does that fit in with being a musician who needs to warm up on stage?
RP: That’s interesting. I was talking about that with Russ [Lawton]. You know, it’s kind of different because, usually, you’d get the first few songs and you’re into it, and by the second set, you’re completely warmed up. It’s different. He wanted to try doing this. I don’t know. You’ve heard it. What do you think? (laughter)
RR: Let’s talk about some of these changes. Speaking of material from those years with that interim band, when you came out on stage last night after the solo acoustic material, you played “Black,” a rarely-played track, which was one of four songs featuring you on 2005’s Shine. It appears like you were only brought into the studio for atmosphere and color on those tracks. What are your memories of that role?
RP: That band was kind of all over the place. Personnel were changing. Trey just had all these songs. I learned them and was playing them, and then when he went into the studio for Shine, basically, I think, Brendan [O’Brien, producer] brought all his own guys in. I said, “Well, if you want me to play, I’ll play.” (laughs) I think it just sort of got out of hand about what the actual band was that was going to do that record.
RR: From another angle, “Money, Love and Change” falls into the classic TAB slot. The band opened the electric set last night with it, and it also opened the live album that was released last year, TAB at the TAB. It’s amazing how that one song has evolved. The song can appear as tight as it can be right now; whereas, in the past, it was a much looser song. When you are playing older songs like that, in your current role, do you think, “Wow, this song has changed a lot over the last 10 years?”
RP: Well, you know, it’s like getting older—you don’t really notice. (laughter)
RR: Oh, but I do notice. I can’t read anything up close anymore. I need bifocals, and that’s a bitch to me. Perception changes; it ain’t so easy. Does that happen musically, as well? Do those changes occur?
RP: I think musically it is more, like…a song like that—those are sort of vehicles to improvise. There’s a song form, and then there’s a whole section where anything can happen. I think when we attack it, it can be anything, really. It’s like there is no “It’s supposed to go this way, or I’m supposed to play the organ, or I’m supposed to play the piano,” or someone is supposed to do this. I mean, there are parts, but, sometimes, we’ll start the song, and it’ll feel a little different, so you go in a different direction. Yeah. I hear what you’re saying, but I’m not sure that I would even notice.
RR: It’s a progressive evolution. It isn’t like you’ve been jerked out of time, and, suddenly, you’re playing a song differently.
RP: Yeah. I think you’ve got it right. It’s an evolved thing. It is what it is now. If we played it for another five years, it would probably sound a lot different.
RR: Indeed. Trey has been your boss for a while, but I do think you have a unique perspective due to your evolving role in the band. When you’re on stage, what are some of the images that come to mind while you’re playing off of him?
RP: When he first asked me, I didn’t know anything about this touring band, and I didn’t really know that much about Phish. When I play music, I try to listen to everyone and see how I can fit in, so I just started doing that. Boy, that’s a tough question.
RR: How important was it for you that you didn’t know about Phish back then?
RP: I think for Trey that was something that he wanted. He wanted to somehow get away from that. He’ll always be saying in rehearsal, “Don’t play it like Page,” or he’ll tell Russ, “Don’t do what Fishman does; just do it your own way.” Of course (laughs), then he’ll say, “Jon Fishman does it this way, and he has this thing…” (laughter) Actually, as a guy, he’s kind of like that. It’s really refreshing in a way. He’s trying to get at a sound that he hears in his head, and he’ll use whatever and try in different ways to try to elicit that from the band, and I think sometimes it really works. He’s always told me, “Just play; do whatever you want. Make the choices, invent—”
RR: Did you say ‘Actually, as a guide’, or ‘Actually, as a guy’?
RP: As a guy, but I guess he is a guide. It’s funny. When I was first starting to work for him, I was thinking, “O.K., this is my boss.” I didn’t really know him, but over the years of playing, we’ve become good friends, so now, I feel much more confident, and I am just going to play what I’m going to play and make those choices and try to get something going.
Photo by Brian Jenkins, www.3rdstoneimages.blogspot.com
RR: From my own personal experiences with Trey, I am always amazed at his memory. He seems to remember just about everything.
RP: Oh, yes. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of pop music history, too.
RR: So will you do something on the keyboards, which will impact him in a way where he’ll turn and say, “Wow, I didn’t think of that; that’s really nice right there,” or is that what he is looking for in his musical relationship with you?
RP: Yeah. I absolutely think so, because, you know, basically, my own style of playing is as an improviser. Trey will often joke now, “I don’t tell you things that I like because if I tell you I like them then you won’t do them again. (laughter) If I bring them to your attention, it won’t occur to you to actually do it.”
RR: Then how does he deliver constructive criticism?
RP: He has clear things. He’ll say, “I think you should play the organ on this. Try that.” It is all suggestions. On some songs, that are more song-structured, he can be pretty clear like “play piano on this,” or “play organ on that,” but, beyond that, I could go from instrument to instrument. Sometimes, in an improvisation, you suddenly change an instrument, or you do some radical shake up of something, and that’s going to set off a really interesting musical time. But it definitely doesn’t always happen.
RR: The nature of improvisation has a lot to do with the concept of happy accidents. I think of Natalie Cressman, the newest TAB member, and a very talented musician, who joined your band because her father wasn’t able to tour with TAB last winter. What are some of the dynamics about the current band which you enjoy and look forward to exploring on this tour?
RP: One thing that I think that has gone through the top is the vocal work. It’s so good now with Natalie and Jen when they come in with the harmonies. I play the organ, which is an orchestral instrument. Now with the voices, they’re taking from that and doing that in a really strong way, and I love that because I can’t sing. (laughs)
RR: I’m going to make an argument that you can sing.
RP: Well, maybe a little. (laughs)
RR: And, once again, on this tour, getting re-familiarized with a rhythm section that you had played with in the early versions of Trey’s solo bands.
RP: Tony and Russ are so solid. In particular, I just start cracking up when they start “Sand.” It’s just such a giant, solid thing. It’s like, sometimes, I don’t even want to play anything. (laughter) It’s weird that way. Getting into rhythms, getting into deep rhythms, is funny that way because I’ll hear Russ and Tony and think, “Oh, my God, I want to play in that; I’ve got something to say in there,” and I’ll play one note and think, “Oh, that’s totally wrong. I just wrecked it.” (laughs) It’s just not right for it. Musically, this band, when anyone plays, they are changing the rhythm in a way. It’s hard to describe, but when it really works, it’s a monstrous, giant thing that I could just play for hours. And Tony has to. (laughs)
RR: When Trey was not playing during 2007 and 2008, I missed the risks he was taking as a musician. I missed his willingness to be free and try different things to see if it worked. I missed when he was challenging himself as an artist. I felt that members of his band were trying to take those risks, as well, to a certain extent. During the time when Trey was in rehab, did you think you’d work with him again?
RP: I would occasionally talk with him. I was actually more hoping that he’d get his shit together. There was a time around 2001, 2002, where I thought, “Wow, I’m going to be working with this guy forever. It’s all great!” Then, when all these changes started happening, I just threw up my hands and thought, “That’s life. There you go.”
But when he said, “O.K., let’s do something,” it just felt really good. It was funny because when we got back together as the four-piece, I realized that it had been like ten years, and we were like an old band that had been together for a long time. (laughs) It felt really good. I love that. It’s like family.
RR: Occasionally, people that are really talented will sabotage their gift, their talent, and sometimes, never get that second chance to redeem themselves. I think of Trey, and consider everyone being somewhat blessed because he figured out a way to say to himself, “I’m not going to blow this second chance.”
RP: Yeah. Yeah. He’s definitely committed. He should be committed. I don’t know. (laughs) The other thing is that we’re all working musicians that have other things that we do. This is a great pleasure and a privilege to do, but it’s not the only thing. I think if it was the only thing it wouldn’t be as special in a way.
RR: The pressure would be to make it something it wasn’t?
RP: I think you can become complacent. Doing this short tour is really nice because, to my thinking, the music doesn’t get worn out easily because it’s a brief period of time. If we were out on the road for six months out of the year, I’d probably go crazy. But that’s just me. (laughs) It’s nice to just go out and “Hey, my friend, and we’re going to go play some music,” and, afterwards, go home to real life, as it were.
RR: Let’s go back to that real life and some of your origins as a musician.
RP: I took lessons as a kid—all my siblings did. When I was in 8th or 9th grade, I discovered Beethoven and U2. The thing about their music is that they are both full of some kind of emotion of where I was at at the time in my life, which was very young—I guess teenage angst or whatever—but it all tied in with listening to that music. It just moved me, and I realized at some point that I could play music and elicit that emotion in myself. At that point, I was hooked; I was going to play music. From there, I was in various put-together bands in high school, and then when I went to college in Middlebury [Vermont], I ran into this fellow named Michael Chorney who had a band called Sun Dog at the time. He said, “Hey, I’m going to put together this jazz band, but, instead, it’s going to be weird kind of jazz.” I said I wanted to do it. I proceeded to work with him for many years up to the quintet, sextet, and then, Viperhouse.
RR: Viperhouse had quite a few members which may have presented some challenges, right?
RP: Yeah. Viperhouse was modeled on a Sun Ra-ish thing. But, yeah, at the beginning, I think it was an eleven-piece band, and it got shaved down a little bit over the years.
RR: Were there any similarities between that work with Viperhouse and some of the music you played with Trey’s bigger bands later on?
RP: In the sense of horn sections, yes, definitely. I think Viperhouse started during that jazz/funk thing that was going on at the time, so we could be a jazz band or a club band, as well, that people would dance to. Michael’s thing was always that the original jazz music was for dancing to. It was like hip hop is today. He wanted to try to get back to that in some way. But, yeah, in that sense, it was a similar thing with Trey’s thing. It wasn’t so much—what I think of as–a jamband, where you’d have long improvisations over a simple pattern, and then, try to make something come out of it—stay with it until something happens. This was more in the Sun Ra thing where you could do anything you wanted to—the stranger, the better. (laughs) It didn’t necessarily have to lend itself to something harmonic or anything. In that sense, it was a little different. One thing about it was that Viperhouse was definitely a composer’s band. You could bring in horn lines, bass lines, rhythm lines and everything, and the band would pick it up and attempt to play it. That was where I cut my teeth composing.
RR: What about instruments? You’ve since played the Hammond Organ, Fender Rhodes, Hohner Clavinet, grand piano and Wurlitzer electric piano, but you also had a Korg you lost during that Viperhouse era?
RP: I started playing the Hammond. I wanted to play the piano in the jazz band, but, obviously, you can’t lug a piano around, so I got an electric piano, the Korg, and it got stolen in Ottawa. At that point, I’d suddenly discovered [John] Medeski and the stuff he was doing with the Hammond, and the guy I was working for had a Hammond organ, and said, “Hey, why don’t you just take this.” I knew nothing about it, but it turned out, for me, to have all the eccentricities of an acoustic piano. You could get sounds out of it that were organic, and, then, I was hooked so I started carrying an organ around.
RR: Build the bridge from Viperhouse to your involvement with Trey.
RP: The connection was that Heloise [Williams], who was in Viperhouse, was working with Trey on Eight Foot Fluorescent Tubes, a project they were doing [April 17 1998 at the Higher Ground in Winooski, Vermont, which also featured Russ Lawton and Tony Markellis, as well as Tom Lawson on guitar, keyboards, and vocals]. I met Trey, and I didn’t know anything about Phish. Viperhouse was touring and we did a gig in Winston-Salem [North Carolina, 11/19/98], and we were playing in the club across from the arena where Phish was playing. They invited us over, and we checked the show out. I was blown away. I thought it was great. Then, Phish came over to our gig. When we were there, Trey started talking about this project he had in mind with Russ and Tony, and would I be interested. I said, “Yeah, sure.” I didn’t think much more about it.
A few years later, when Vorcza was playing at the Higher Ground, he showed up with Stewart Copeland because he was working in Oysterhead. He said, “O.K., this summer, do you want to go out for two months?” (laughs) I said, “O.K.”
There’s the connection. But all of those things were happening at the same time—the end of Viperhouse and Vorcza [a trio featuring ex-Viperhouse members Paczkowski and bassist Robinson Morse, in addition to drummer and percussionist, Gabriel Jarrett].
RR: How did Vorcza come together?
RP: P.J. Davidian, the percussion from Viperhouse, was involved in the beginning. We were playing as a trio, jazz-like random stuff, and then it slowly evolved into something else. Gab came on board after P.J. left town for a while. We’d just make up grooves and try to make things up.
RR: Vorcza played some gigs, recorded an all-instrumental album, Maximalist, and then toured for a bit after that, before recording Corner of the Morning, a favorite of mine, which also featured your lyrical contributions and vocals. I like the blend of the vocal-driven material with the instrumentals. Trey showed up on an atmospheric track, “A Call for All Demons,” which was written by Sun Ra, and then a balls-to-the wall track, “F/T,” which was written by yourself and Vorcza.
RP: Yeah. That was the sophomore effort as you guys say. (laughter) We decided to do another record, and I had been wanting to try to sing songs. I wanted to blend the two things together—instrumental stuff we were doing, but then have songs. Yeah, I wrote some songs with lyrics, learned them, and (laughs) I’m not really sure what to say about this. I love some of those songs. They came out of a place in me that I really had to write them. They definitely have some emotional baggage to them. We went out and did that, and, then, I think with the trio, we were on the road a lot, and we got burned on it. It’s hard. And then Rob went off to music school down in New York. But, now, when we get together and play, we’re always saying, “We’ve got to get this on the road again.” (laughs) Sometimes, you just need a little space. We’re talking about doing another album. We’re trying to get something going again. We’ll, hopefully, still be playing.
RR: I can draw lines from the Sun Ra-influenced material in your early days in Viperhouse to that second album with Vorcza, and on to the current tour with TAB. Trey’s got the acoustic set, and then, again, a blend of everything with song-focused structured material, cover songs, and improvisational moments. Is it inspiring for you as a musician knowing that you’ll have that variety every night?
RP: I personally love it. If we did, you know, “Sand,” “First Tube,” and “Mozambique” every night, it wears you out after a while, because you are constantly trying to come up with creative ideas to get a spark going. But if you intersperse that kind of material with songs and covers, it’s just so much fun that you can’t not create.
RR: I know you get into your head space before a gig, but how difficult is it to turn the brain off when you get on stage, feel the music, and just play in the moment?
RP: Not too hard. It usually takes me a couple of shows once the thing gets rolling. This tour is a little bit different because we’re only playing one set. It feels like I’m getting gypped somehow. “Hey, now we’re cookin’. Oh, it’s the end.” (laughter)
RR: The encore better be really good.
RP: Yeah. Yeah. So if that’s the case we better jump right into it and, sometimes, that would happen anyway. But once I’m there playing music, I’m definitely in the moment. For the most part; 90% of the time. Sometimes, I’m thinking, “Oh, shit, how does this song go? I have to remember.” I think most musicians would say that—all the bullshit and the work lead up to those three hours. During the three hours, the music business is the best business in the world.
RR: During rehearsals, did you go over every song that the band could play, or could there be songs that pop up on the setlist which are not known yet? I assume Trey still has some sort of setlist, and/or a portion of it may still get thrown out.
RP: There’s sort of a master setlist of songs. At soundcheck, often, we will try something, and chances are we will play that one that night, but not always. It’s probably, maybe, 60% of the time. It’s a pretty big song list. He has, like I said, the encyclopedic mind for that stuff, but he’ll pull some things (laughs) out of his hat, and we’ll just look at each other and say, “Oh, yeah, we can play that song. O.K., 1,2,3, go.”
RR: And songs that are yet to come, too, I would imagine.
RP: There are some newer songs that will come out on this tour. That’s the stuff we concentrate on. To really know a tune, you know it just by playing it, to see how it is going to gel into how this band is going to respond. Things like “Ocelot” and “Burn That Bridge” and a few more have not quite gelled yet into how the band is going to execute that material. We’ll see. I like that, too, because there’s no hard and fast rule (laughs)—“it goes like this.”
RR: I’ve been to numerous soundchecks, and what I’ve noticed is that Trey seems to have a different approach to a soundcheck based on a specific tour. Sometimes, it appeared like he would be going over solo passages in songs, chord changes, or segues between songs. How have soundchecks changed over the years with TAB?
RP: It’s kind of random. My sense is that if he’s happy with what’s going on, soundchecks are sort of pro forma —we’ll play something and, maybe, play something new. But if it seems like—and this is me talking; I don’t know if he feels this way—he is somewhat unsatisfied with something, we’ll play songs over and over again, and we’ll really try to dig and get into them, and make some kind of intrinsic change in a groove, and how it feels, and the dynamic of it—something intense like that. I think he just pulls this stuff out of his hat. (laughs) We talked about the acoustic set, obviously, and he was trying to figure out a way to bring the band up, one by one, and what song would work. Like last night, I came on for “Black” after the girls were singing and, then, Russ and Tony came out on “Valentine.” Well, in soundcheck, he said, “We need one acoustic song where everyone plays electric.” (laughter) So we did that. That was wicked fun. He’s got a plan, but he’s a great improviser even in a soundcheck and how he goes about figuring out songs. Yes, he has a plan, but he doesn’t know how he’s going to do it.
RR: You’re still based in Vermont, and, obviously, much of the history and lore of the Trey Anastasio Band is steeped in the lore of that state. How has the Vermont musical scene changed over the years, and where do you see it heading?
RP: I think Burlington and around the state has a slew of great players. Russ and I have a little duo. We play locally and it’s kind of funk—Hammond and drums. It’s really fun. We hooked up with this singer/songwriter/guitarist Bob Wagner, and we’ve been doing stuff with him. He’s involved pretty tightly with the Burlington scene and he’s a 20-year old, and Russ and I are old guys now. (laughter) Playing with Bob introduced me to a younger generation of players in his circle. There’s all these musicians coming out and they’re fucking great—so many players, and there’s a lot of interesting stuff going on. I think it’s great. There was a point a bunch of years ago when I told myself that “I am going to take every gig that I possibly can of any kind.” And I’ve been doing that; I’ve been playing the most bizarre stuff. It’s been really fun—just whatever comes up: classical, rock, blues, jazz, anything. I won’t say that I can play all those things, but it’s fun to do it, and meet these people who are doing it.
