In many homes, Arlo Guthrie’s “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” has become a Thanksgiving staple just as important as turkey, stuffing and pie, but, if you ask the song’s author himself, the iconic story-song is really just “an anti-stupid song.” Guthrie, the son of Oklahoma folk icon Woody Guthrie, wrote “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” as a comedic protest song after he was arrested—and thus disqualified from the draft—for littering in the Berkshire County town of Stockbridge, Mass just after Thanksgiving on November 28, 1965 at the age of 20. He workshopped the song’s distinctive tent-revival narration through countless live performances, added a wicked ragtime guitar part and released the song as the 18-minute opening title-track on his debut album, Alice’s Restaurant. “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” was a leftfield hit, and along with “The Motorcycle Song,” it helped Arlo secure his place as the missing link between the his folk-singer forefathers and the then-current counterculture movement.
To the surprise of many, Arlo retired “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” in the 1970s, but he never really stepped off the road and continues to tour throughout the year with both his own band and a revue-style cast of friends and family members. He has revived “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” on select anniversaries and special occasions, and, in the early 1990s, he purchased the church where Alice and Ray Brock live and the story’s classic first scene took place. The Trinity Church now serves as both an interfaith chapel and the home of The Guthrie Center, a non-profit dedicated to bringing individuals together for cultural, educational and spiritual exchange.
“I dread playing ‘Alice’s Restaurant’” for people who are familiar with it,” Arlo told Relix/Jambands.com in 2005. “I remember the day I started doing it for a whole world that had never heard it before—the reaction of the crowd created the song.”
Arlo revived and buffed up the retired “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” for its golden anniversary earlier this year and has performed the song as the centerpiece of the Alice’s Restaurant 50th Anniversary Tour. This weekend, Arlo will return to New York’s Carnegie Hall for his annual Thanksgiving Weekend show, a tradition he shared with his old friend and mentor Pete Seeger for decades. As in years past, the shows will feature Arlo’s son and keyboardist Abe as well as his daughter Sarah Lee Guthrie and her husband Johnny Irion, who have helped introduce folk music to fans raised on The Black Crowes, Wilco and Deer Tick.
“My dad always said you can only about what you know,” Arlo says. “There are a lot of people writing about what they read or what they believe. But, if someone writes about what they know, they don’t need to be a great songwriter. When you hear the truth, it rings in you and becomes great.”
As he prepared to mark the 50th anniversary of the events that inspired “Alice’s,” Guthrie spoke about the song’s cultural significance, living in his famous father’s shadow and how he lives by the Hindu practice of embracing all religions.
“The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” is your signature song, yet you only play the entire suite on special occasions like this big anniversary. Why did you originally drop the song from your setlists?
Originally the song was a commentary on the ridiculous situation we were engaged in in Southeast Asia. It wasn’t an anti-war song—although I was certainly against the adventurism in Vietnam—it was an anti-stupid song. When the war was over, the draft had ended and our boys began coming home, so the song didn’t have the impact it’d had formerly. In addition, it was just too long to do every night. So I took it off the setlist except for the occasional anniversaries like the one we’re doing now.
Every time we [revive the song], the focus is a little different, and I’ve tried to update it with things that are going on these days, while still keeping the original intact. But the new elements are my favorite
Though known for its narrative story, “The Alice’s Restaurant Massacree” has a very distinctive melody and guitar line. Can you talk a bit about the song’s musical inspirations?
Ragtime was my first love, musically, and I was very comfortable playing that style on the guitar. That turned out to be very helpful as it was uniquely American and didn’t distract from the story.
You mentioned that “Alice’s Restaurant” is an “anti-stupid song,” not anti-war, and most of the song avoids talking specifically about Vietnam. Yet “Alice’s Restaurant” remains a definitive account of Vietnam-era hypocrisy. At what point do you think the song became a true protest song?
“Alice’s Restaurant” was especially popular with the guys stuck in Vietnam, because they’d been through the process I described in the song. [In the song, Arlo describes a real life situation where he avoids being drafted because he was once arrested for littering.] It was also popular with young people being forced to serve in an unpopular war. Everyone on almost all sides of the political divisions we had in those days could relate to some parts of it. I think that’s what makes a good song, even these days.
Earlier this week you performed at the Trinity Church, Alice’s former home and the backdrop for much of the “Alice’s Restaurant” song. The church is now home to The Guthrie Center and The Guthrie Foundation, and it also functions as an interfaith chapel. How did you come to purchase the church and turn it into a non-profit center?
I was doing a “What Ever Happened To Him” TV episode, and we were filming outside the old church when the people who owned it came out and told me they wanted to sell the building and move to Chicago. Up to that point, I had never even imagined I could do something with the church. But I raised enough money to put down a down payment, and we began two not-for-profit organizations that would work out of there. Now we’re engaged in another fund-raiser to fix the roof and do some other maintenance that will keep it going for another 50 years.
Your annual Carnegie Hall shows have become a Thanksgiving tradition in themselves. What was the origin of your Carnegie Hall shows?
I first played Carnegie Hall in 1967 as a solo concert [around the release of the Alice’s Restaurant album.] And soon after that, I began doing shows with Pete Seeger every year, usually two days in a row. Our last Pete & Arlo show was in November 2012 at Carnegie. I don’t know how many decades we did that, but it was a lot. So it became a tradition that every Saturday after Thanksgiving I take over Carnegie Hall. This year will be very special because of the “Alice” Tour, but I’ll keep doing those shows for as long as I can.
As you mentioned, for many years Pete Seeger co-hosted these Carnegie Hall shows with you. You’ve said that you inherited him from your father, and you cast him as himself in the Alice’s film. What is a lesson that he taught you later in his life that continues to influence your performances?
There was no one like Pete. He really was a master at getting people to loosen up and sing along. It’s a very powerful experience. I try my best to continue that spirit, although I’m no Pete Seeger. Still, I think we carry on with the spirit that Pete and those before him taught us to believe in: The power of song is stronger that most people imagine.
A few years ago, you celebrated your father’s centennial with a family reunion-style tour that drew in several generations of family members. How has that immersive experience in your family’s heritage changed your own musical process?
I’ve spent decades being Woody Guthrie’s kid, and I’ve never had a problem with being just that. But the other day, as I was walking along a street, I heard some people talking and as I went by someone said “Do you know who that is?” And as I walked away I heard “That’s Sarah Lee Guthrie’s father!” I looked up and smiled at my dad. I’m finally not just his kid anymore.
Both your son and daughter have been on the road with you this year, and your son has toured with you for years. How have their rolls changed with your live show as they have aged into accomplished musicians themselves?
We just like playing music. And when we can do it together it’s even better. The family shows we’ve done are hard to put together with almost 16 of us—it’s a logistical nightmare. But they are my favorite kind of shows.
Years ago, you recorded a cover of Phish’s “Bouncing Around the Room” for the tribute album Sharin’ in the Groove. How did that cover come to be, and did the band ever give you any feedback on the song?
That was fun. We did a really wild mix on that you’ll hear if you have a listen with headphones, and I thought it was pretty good. I don’t remember any comments about it, because it was too long ago, but the idea for that cover came from my son Abe, who turned me on to them. [Arlo recorded the song with his son Abe’s band, Xavier.]
It has been a few years since you released a studio project. Do you have plans to go into the studio anytime soon and, if so, what type of project do you hope to record?
We’ll see what happens. Lately, it’s been easier to just record the live shows. But, yeah I would love to do another album in a studio sometime. There’s nothing in the works though.
Your father was Christian and your mother was Jewish, you have studied with Franciscan monks, Buddhists and Hindus and you have said, “I have three or four major traditions that I am carrying around inside me.” On your website you also echo the Hindu belief by saying, “I love the holiday season. I celebrate everything because I am everything. Now I can share that celebration with each and everyone. I like that and it likes me. Even the coming year is something to look forward to. This past year was pretty good considering.” Can you describe your balance between these faiths?
I firmly believe that different religious traditions can reside in one person, or one nation or even one world. I believe [The Guthrie Center’s job] is to link all these diverse communities. Everyone is different and has their own take from all to none, and everything in between. I was raised that way myself. If we weren’t different, we wouldn’t have horse races. I respect everyone who thinks for themselves and finds a way through this world, especially those who are respectful and interested in what everyone else believes. Whatever you believe, I can tell you this: I believe in love.
Your maternal grandmother was Aliza Greenblatt, who was a well-known Yiddish poet who lived across the street from you and inspired your father to write a set of Klezmer songs that blended the struggles of the Jewish people with his interest in social activism. [Arlo’s sister Nora later gave these songs to the Klezmer group The Klezmatics to set to new music.] And your Bar-Mitzvah was a legendary hootenanny jam session. What was that coming of age event like, and who were some of the players that were involved in that event?
They were all there—all this [musical friends. I don’t remember anything but thinking, “Thank God my father is here” because everyone forgot about me and went to talk to him, [which is great because I didn’t like the attention at that time.] It couldn’t have been better.
Do you plan to retire “Alice’s” again after this celebration until the 60th anniversary?
Folksinging is a ‘die with your boots on’ profession. There’s no retirement. [I’ve never been] afraid of dying so much—I didn’t want to die, but it scared me more that I would get out of this life without living up to my parents’ expectations, that I would leave this world a little better than I came.
