Osiris Media’s Undermine podcast’s fourth episode of its second season focuses on what jam band fans lovingly refer to as “The Lot.” The installment welcomed Holly Bowling, Gregg Carey, Karina Rykman, Umphrey’s McGee’s Joel Cummins, Relix editor Dean Budnick, PhanArt Pete Mason, and more.

Phish lyricist Tom Marshall who works as the host and narrator for the podcast, opened with poster artist AJ Masthay, Baba Cool’s Brooke Hancock, the founder of Section 119 CEO Gregg Carey and “shakedown artist” Brandy Davis, all recalling how they started their businesses and the small economic worlds that were born out of the lots outside of Phish shows.

“The Phish community is really so friendly and welcoming and encouraging. I’ve never experienced such an environment where people just tell you ‘keep making art,” said Davis.

The talk then shifted to PhanArt and the shows Mason puts together by connecting different artists and unofficial merch curators at shows. He also went into the growth of PhanArt from a book to a website to a community that puts on shows that help many independent artists connect.

Budnick then weighed in on the history of the Phish lot, comparing it to what was happening contemporaneously outside Grateful Dead shows. “When I think of the lot scene when it comes to Phish, at least initially, it just seemed sort of charming to me in a lot of ways and so pure and so organic,” Budnick said, contrasting it with the Grateful Dead Shakedown that continued to swell “out of control” following the release of In The Dark in 1987.

The podcast then continued with a discussion on the 12 Tribes, the cult that recruits members with a bus that often is parked on the lots of Phish concerts and other jam band scene lots.

Undermine then turns to the bands that established themselves after Phish shows like the Umphrey’s McGee and the Disco Biscuits. Joel Cummins of Umphrey’s McGee looked back on his first time seeing Phish at UIC Pavilion on June 18, 1994. Cummins said, “One advantage we had playing at Dead Creek campground is that we were playing for new people, but we had also had a bunch of our friends going to those shows. So we told everybody ‘camp at Dead Creek.'”

The episode ends with bassist Karina Rykman and pianist Holly Bowling conversing about how Phish inspired them. Listen to Undermine’s “The Lot” episode here.