Jackie was a great mentor to you. What were some of the defining lessons he taught you that you continue to bring to your own music and collaborations with musicians like Trey?

Jackie would always tell us, “Write your own music, honoring the tradition. Though you need to learn—and you need to know—all of this, it is also very important to write your own music and express yourself.” So I have always been doing that with my peers; we worked together and wrote music together. I began looking at the big picture of things.

I’ve always been the baby in the band—I’ve been playing bass since I was 7 years old in church. My father was the one that put the bass in my bands and I joined my dad when I was 12. So I just learned to be quiet and take everything in. When I began looking at the big picture—every session, anytime someone would tap me for my services, I invested myself in it a lot. And I guess that’s where my producer side came out. I’ve had a lot of association with the great drummer Louis Hayes for the last 11 years.

As you mentioned, you also work regularly as a producer. While you were off the road during the pandemic, did you dive more into the studio?

I produced Louis’ last four records that he has lined up. There’s one that is about to come out. We recorded in January of the pandemic, and I produced his debut record on Blue Note a few years ago. And I just produced my partner Brandee Younger’s debut record that just dropped on Impulse. She’s a wonderful harpist, composer and bandleader. So I’ve done a lot of producing for years, but I’m just now beginning to get official credit for it.

When I am in the producer seat, I pretty much run the session—I’m not gonna let anything go, and I’m gonna put my best foot forward. I’m always giving of myself in any situation. As well, I believe that, at this point in my life, we all have done things that we needed to do that may not have been beneficial to us emotionally.

And that is very important as an artist. In the short, but substantial, time that I’ve been here, I’ve come to the point where I only want to do what’s going to be beneficial to me artistically and emotionally. So I give thanks to the creator for just giving me the opportunities that I’ve had in the past three years before the pandemic. I’ve only been involved in what I want to do. God has given me opportunities that have been sustainable and beneficial in all areas.

You nod to a number of those spiritual themes on your recent Black Lion album.

I have always considered myself the black lion because I’ve always been different than all of my peers—not that I’m built different, but in the sense that I’ve always followed and believed in what my path is. I’ve never tried to be like anyone else. I’m just strictly trying to be myself. But, in 2010, I decided to start this group where I can just do whatever I wanted to do. Yet, it is not totally my vision, and, over the years, it has taken many different forms. It could be a trio, a quartet, a sextet. It could have horns—I love writing for horns—it could be a big-band thing. And in 2014 or 2015, I took a group into the studio and did a session. Of course, I am a perfectionist so I didn’t like anything that we recorded, but you learn something from each session. So in 2016 I tried again.

I went to the studio again and that session fell the day after I got back from Australia with Ravi. I literally flew in at like midnight from Australia and had to be in the studio for my date the following day. That session was just as great but, in hindsight as a perfectionist, I really didn’t like anything. Fast forward about a year later, my partner Brandee starts just yelling at me. She’s like “You better do something with all that money you spent in the studio—find something in there.”

Sometimes you have to step away and, as I went and listened back to some of that stuff, I’m like, “Oh, this sounds pretty decent. That’s not as bad as I thought it was—all we got to do is mix it.” So I released six of the 15 or so songs we recorded. I actually think the other stuff was great too but I just really felt strong about those six and it was just a glimpse of things to come for me. It was strictly my vision with no influence from anyone else. It is what was going on in my head and I’m thankful for the musicians that have taken the time to help me. They have given their love and they’ve given of themselves, under my leadership. A great drummer, Victor Lewis, told me almost 20 years ago, “There’s no hierarchy on the bandstand. You have to do great, even if you feel like you are out of league.”

A lot of musicians used the pandemic to work in the studio. What projects are you currently working on?

I actually just went into the studio and recorded my next album, which is coming out next year on the International Anthem label based out of Chicago. It features my quartet with George Burton, Joe Dyson and Emilio Modeste. That quartet was formed in the height of the pandemic and those guys gave me so much therapy on the bandstand.  We went in the studio and laid down some serious history. I plan to start mixing that after the tour with Trey. I’m also teaching at NYU so right now I was just emailing all my students and dotting all my I’s and crossing my T’s because I just got this job with Trey and I don’t want to fail anyone.

In my life, I’ve literally had no room for failure. So I thank God. Success is only in the eyes of those who deem success. But I’m happy with the work that’s on my plate and the work that’s ahead of me—as paramount as it all may be. It’s no greater than what was on my plate 25 years ago or when I came into this world.

Shifting back to your upcoming tour with Trey. How have you been preparing for the run?

Let me say this: Trey’s catalog is immense. You have the catalog with his band, the catalog with Phish, the catalog with Oysterhead and his own personal catalog. I don’t know if I will ever be able to learn his complete catalog, but whatever he wants me to play, I will play.

One thing I do know is that Trey’s level of musicianship is beyond this world. The times that we’ve been face to face, just playing in these rehearsals, I’ve felt this connection that I really appreciate. I feel like we both think a lot; he doesn’t have to say much. He can look at me and I’m listening. We hear similarly. So whatever I need, I know he’s there to give it to me. And, whatever he needs, I’m there to give him. And same thing with everyone else in the band. I’ve been familiar with his work with Phish since high school; I’m from Hartford, Conn. so you can’t grow up in New England and not know about Phish.

You and Jen went to school together and you played in different incarnations of her band but, at the same time, you also had a very successful parallel career in the jazz world. Besides knowing Phish, did you have other inroads in the jamband scene? 

When I was in high school, I was a Dave Matthews Band head. I played high school football, and I was diehard into it, so we used to have these you know football rivalry brawls in the parking lot at Dave Matthews Band concerts. You might have lost a football game but you won the war in the parking lot of the Dave Matthews Band concert. Toward the end of high school, in 1998 or 1999, I got into Phish and then, throughout college, there was a big wave. I would always check out these different jambands that my friends were into and I would hip them to a lot of other music. The first time I played with Trey in Vegas, when he played with Jen, I immediately heard first hand what he is hearing in his ears, what he is facilitating—his soul. He’s very much an old soul, but on this out-of-this-world level.

We all know the lineage. He got the blessing from Jerry Garcia, and Jerry had the Grateful Dead, and Jerry had his band. Trey has Phish and Trey has his band. I actually got a chance to see the Jerry Garcia Band with Melvin Seals in 2000-2001. They came to Hartford and I was working with a friend of mine and we opened up for them. So I enjoy any music that is creative and where the vibration is high and the spirit is high. I enjoy music that moves across the board for all cultures. So even though I may be new to the fans, this scene is not new to me and I hope they have an open heart, just like I have an open heart for them. And I hope we can have some fun. I’m gonna do my best to make sure everyone’s dancing.

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