Schools with Hard Working Americans- photo by Dean Budnick

What is your approach and mindset going into the show?

It’s not relying on what most rock bands’ clock would be, like a rhythm guitar player or a drummer a la simple, straightforward rock or R&B type stuff. I’ve discovered, in my many experiences with these guys, that it really lets them do their thing better if I can be a solid thing as bass player, and be more of a clock. I haven’t had the years and years of experimentation, both consciously, psychically and musically, that the group had in the ‘60s to form their own language.

A starting point for me is to choose my notes carefully, and to really maintain a clock so that Billy can dance on the drums. He’s dancing better than he’s danced in a long time these days. These guys are really jazzed; they’re super excited, they feel re-energized with all the projects we’re doing, so I want to just enable that. Jeff and Tommy are amazing musicians; they’re deep, deep cats, especially Jeff and his ability to flesh out these tunes and to vary the theme, musically, every night. His knowledge is super deep; he’s a real help to me.

We put a lot of extra time in, just the three of us, getting some little details and things straightened out. We put some good time into harmony vocals. Luckily, you don’t have to hear me sing. I just don’t trust myself. I’m going to concentrate on the bass and creating a situation where everybody else can soar. I’ll get my chance to soar too, don’t you worry.

It’s really fun because that’s the thing, the music is fun, and to really be able to let it play us, there’s a level of comfort and familiarity that has to be achieved. I have to let go and trust the other guys, trust the overall external clock of the universe to keep the song where it needs to be in that moment. I know that sounds vibey.

As far as preparation, how does something like this compare to playing with Phil Lesh and Mike Gordon as a part of the Steal Your Bass sets you participated in at Lockn’. What’s the goal there with three bassists on stage?

Well it would be like choreographing a ballet with three linebackers. But they’re three very experienced linebackers who’ve played on championship teams. It’s about not being in the same spot at the same time, and it’s about working together and listening. That’s an innate understanding that all three of us have.

Really, it was just a great experience; it was fun. It was a chance for the three of us to get together and have some shop-talk about our basses and rigs and tones. For me, the big payoff was the time before; the time spent with Mike while Phil was onstage playing at Lockn’ as we’re trying to figure out a Stravinsky piece that Phil had sent us sheet music for at 2:30 AM the night before.

Had you ever played with Mike before?

Not like that. Mike and I did a lot of hanging out in the era where Phish and Panic played a lot of shows together. But, mostly we were talking about other music. Gosh, that seems like a long time ago.

Let’s shift to Hard Working Americans. How has that band evolved from its birth?

That’s another case of: looked good on paper, and actually surprised all of us onstage. The rate of the evolution of the band, it was unpredictably accelerated. Literally, after twelve shows, we felt like we had been playing together for ten years.

We put the time in on the second record, and went out and toured, and I just finished mixing a live record that will come out sometime this year, which we recorded from our August tour. It’s got pieces from a show in L.A., Birmingham, Atlanta, and Lockn’, are all a part of it. But, it’s constructed to be like a show.

Not to graze on a really sore subject for many people today, but after Trump was elected, Todd Snider and I had a conversation about the time being righter than it has been in probably 50 years for the truly gifted songwriters to start crafting some protest music. And, it’s not about protesting the man who won the election; I mean, you could do that but he’s there, like it or not. It’s about being ready to protest the needs of people whose needs are not being met.

I think it’s just the artist has to rise to a responsibility in times like this when large swaths of people are feeling like they don’t have a voice. It doesn’t matter which side you’re on; if you don’t feel like you have a voice, you’re not happy. There really shouldn’t be two sides, and maybe part of the protests is “Let’s get together!” not “Let’s beat each other up,” and fight at the water cooler, and not talk to each other at family dinners. Let’s find the things we can talk about. Maybe that’s the best form of protest, maybe I’m naïve.

I don’t know, but I know that Snider is busily writing the greatest material he’s yet to write. He’s really hitting his stride as a songwriter, and he’s more intelligent, and more clever. It always reminds me of if Mark Twain were alive today and fronting a band.

Out of curiosity, who are some of your favorite protest songwriters aside from Snider?

I don’t necessarily look at things that need to be mentioned or raged against. But look, there’s the word right there, “rage.” I think Rage Against the Machine was some amazing modern protest music.

I’m not going to go down the canon of the folk singers; we all know Woody Guthrie, Arlo Guthrie. And a protest song doesn’t necessarily have to be what we think of as a classic protest song. It can just be something that raises awareness to an injustice in the world. You could look at “Paranoid Android” as a protest song.

I think some of the best protest songs have yet to be written; frankly, I think we’re going to see some in the next four years. I love Jerry Joseph. It’s almost like reminding people that we’re all the same, and that there’s love and grace and hope in the world. It flies in the face of those who would divide us by conquering us, and setting us against each other. I’ve been working with Jerry on a new record that’s being mixed right now up in Portland, and it’s some of the most hopeful and amazing melodies in songs he’s ever written. Jerry is a guy that just keeps getting better and better at his craft.

Those are my three things; I’m trying to get Steve Kimock to finish the record we started back in June. It’s the quartet of us, his son John Kimock who plays with Mike Gordon and the very talented Leslie Mendelson. They’ve written some words to some of Steve’s songs, and they’ve also written some songs themselves, and I think it’s a really fresh sound and it really jazzed me.

I thought I saw a way to get some more Kimock music out there and maybe attract some new fans because of the vocals. The way Leslie writes her songs, it’s a really beautiful record; it’s got some very experimental arrangements, courtesy of John Kimock, and some sound processing he can do. I’m really excited to get that out. Steve is a person that has a quality that I appreciate, which is that he needs everything to sound just exactly perfect, and I totally appreciate it. It’s worth the extra time to let him have the opportunity to do that. I’m really looking forward to that. I think that’s going to make a lot of people really happy when they hear this Kimock record.

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