From 1978-1988 Ike Willis played some of the greatest concerts in the history of rock and roll as lead vocalist and guitarist in Frank Zappa's band. You can hear some of these incredible concert performances on Zappa's live series "You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore." He appears on volumes 1, 3, 4, and 6. He also played the title characters on two of Zappa's concept albums "Joe's Garage" and "Thingfish" and appeared on many other Zappa records during his tenure. He recreates that special brand of Zappa madness with the phenomenal Zappa tribute band Project/Object. He has toured with them several times over the years and they are currently in the midst of their biggest tour ever. For tourdates and info on Project/Object check out their website: http://www.projectobject.com/. Ike creates brilliant music in his own right and his most recent album is called "Dirty Pictures." It features soaring, fluid guitar work, politics, social satire, and his trademark smooth, bionic baritone vocals. It is available on his official website: http://home.onlinerock.com/musicians/ikewillis/. I spoke with Ike over telephone as he prepared for his current tour. We talked about his career with Zappa, his tours with Zappa tribute bands, and "Dirty Pictures." The man is a walking encyclopedia of all things Zappa and this interview just scratches the surface. To learn more and to experience the Ike Willis mystique go check him out on the current tour with Project/Object. If you never got the chance to see Frank Zappa live, this tour is the next best thing.

AJ - Let's get started. If you don't mind I'd like to focus on your work with Frank. Do you ever get sick of talking about Frank? Does it bother you that you are probably better known for your work with him than for your own music?

Ike - It's an even trade off. He lets me play his music. He assigned me to play his music before he died. It's an honor for me to play his music. It only opens up more doors for me to do my own stuff. I want to let people know what kind of a guy Frank really was. He was a hell of a guy. Most people think he must have been high and crazy, but he was the most intelligent human I ever met. More people should know the kind of person he really was. I can let people know that he was the opposite of what most people think.

The week before he died I had a last meeting with Frank. He told me to keep his music alive however I can. I do it in every way possible that's not illegal, causes lawsuits, or angers the Zappa family. Project/Object performs once or twice a year and it is because we love the music and want to keep the music alive. We want to show people that Frank was a great composer and wrote such great music. Nobody makes a living from it. I have great time and it gives me the opportunity to play some of my favorite stuff including the stuff I was originally a part of.

AJ - So how did you meet Zappa and join his band?

Ike - I went to school in St. Louis and it was a jazz hub and my mom was a jazz singer so I grew up with a musical background. He came to do a concert at Washington University and I was on the student concert crew. I met him and we hit it off and he invited me out to LA for an audition.

AJ - Even after you had established yourself in the band you still had to audition before every new album or tour. Did this offend you?

Ike - No, I didn't mind. I was never turned down. In 1981 and 1982 I didn't go on tour so I could have kids and start a family. But I did the albums. He would have auditions every year. It would always depend on what he was looking for. It was part of his orchestration, part of the specific sound he was searching for. Every Zappa band I was in there was always more than one keyboard player and more than one guitar player.

AJ - Did any older hardcore Zappa fans ever resent you because they liked Frank's older, more complex and lavish instrumental material?

Ike - He wanted a new lead vocalist because he didn't want to do it anymore himself. When I came along the fans came up to me and said they loved the stuff. They told me they were waiting for a new direction from Frank anyway. I don't know how much I had to with that. I just did what the man told me to do. My first few years in the band I was just a hired gun and followed orders. There was no ad libbing at all. I could not throw my two cents into the mix at all until I was in the band over two years. The fist year-and-a-half in the band I was still a youngster (20) trying to figure it all out. I said to myself "How can I stay here and continue to be a part of it?" There was too much great music to learn. After "Joe's Garage" Frank loosened up and let me participate in some of the songs. However, it wasn't a straight up "Ike, you're gonna produce now." No, instead we would be working on something and we would laugh about it and then the songs would just take on a life of their own. Ideas and concepts would pop off the top of his head and we'd discuss them and we were off and running.

AJ - You did "Joe's Garage" in its entirety with Project/Object, but did you ever do it with Zappa?

Ike - We obviously did many of the songs, but we never did the entire album straight through live. We just never got around to it. After every tour we would get a box of more stuff to do.

AJ - So what was it like finally performing one of your signature albums in complete form?

Ike - Bringing it back was fantastic. That was my first album with Frank so a lot of memories came back as we performed it. It was a great thing to do. People were always asking us to do the whole album and so we did it.

AJ - Thingfish is another one of your signature albums with Frank. Tell me about it.

Ike - I had a large hand in helping develop Thingfish. It was the hardest, most difficult and longest thing I ever did with Frank. The subject matter was difficult and there was so much material. Frank was writing and rewriting everyday. The album took on a life of its own and grew. Everyday the script changed and more and more lyrics were added.

AJ - Have you done other albums in their entirety with Project/Object?

Ike - We did "You Are What You Is" and maybe one other.

AJ - Zappa was such a perfectionist, yet he also liked to be funny and spontaneous such as the game you just described. How did the band walk the fine line between perfectionism and spontaneous improvisation?

Ike - There really isn't a big difference between being a perfectionist and being funny and spontaneous. As long as the notes were being played right and the timing was where it was supposed to be. The key was to continue to do your job while the nuttiness was going on it made the song ten times better. It made the song payoff with the audience even more. Because the music was going along as it was supposed to but then we would crack up or do something crazy but yet underneath it all the song was still going on as it was supposed to. The audience was amazed because they were familiar with the song but something totally threw them off.

AJ - The Hi Ho silver incident is a good example of that. (Note - At a few different concerts Ike yelled out "Hi Ho Silver!" over and over in the middle of different songs. The entire band bursts out laughing and you can hear this on "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 3.)

Ike - Well, we certainly got a lot of mileage out that one. I think I started doing that in Vancouver, but I can't remember where exactly. It just popped out one night and that's all she wrote. Frank started cranking up. Often times we would try to crack each other up and it was became a game. It was one of the most fun parts of a show, but we didn't really plan to do it a lot. It was very spontaneous. We'd try to make each other laugh when the other one was singing. Or it could come during a high stress point in the middle of a difficult song.

AJ - Zappa said the band never once played Drowning Witch correctly.

Ike - I never played on that tune. I had it easy. I just sang it. There were always a couple of small mistakes. One person or another had problems with it, but that's not out of the ordinary. There were so many difficult and intricate songs.

AJ - Zappa was so against the typical rock and roll lifestyle. Were there strict rules while the band was on tour?

Ike - The basic rule was to just not do anything to jeopardize Frank's name or the band. We were not allowed to smash up hotel rooms, but I've never believed in that anyway. There was a no drug policy. But who can concentrate on playing Frank's material while you were high anyway? His music is hard enough as it is. You couldn't play that stuff while you were smoking a joint.

AJ - Why did Zappa say the 1988 band "self-destructed?"

Ike - It wasn't the band it was Scott Thunes. He made himself so obnoxious that nobody wanted to be around him. He is wildly talented and intelligent. But he just got spoiled rotten and nobody wanted to play with him because of the way he acted. That was the finest band that I was involved in with Frank. It was the band we had been dreaming of. I lobbied to get the Fowler brothers back in the band. It was an incredible band and we had the right combination of people.

AJ - Since that band was so great, but the problems were only with Scott Thunes why didn't Frank fire him and continue with another bass player?

Ike - It was the timing of the thing. If it had been a different day and Frank was in a different mood I'm sure that would have happened. It just occurred when Frank was in a bad mood and woke up on the wrong side of the cave. He was just starting to get sick and he just said fuck it.

AJ - What is your favorite Zappa album?

Ike - Oh jeez. I dunno. There were so many of them. I guess "Joe's Garage" is my sentimental favorite because that was my first. I like "You Are What You Is," My favorite live ones are "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life" and "Make A Jazz Noise Here" because they were recordings of my dream band I just talked about. They had all my favorite musicians on it."

AJ - "Thingfish" is one of your signature albums with Frank. Tell me about it.

Ike - I had a large hand in helping develop "Thingfish." It was the hardest, most difficult and longest thing I ever did with Frank. The subject matter was difficult and there was so much material. Frank was writing and rewriting everyday. The album took on a life of its own and grew. Everyday the script changed and more and more lyrics were added.

AJ - Does it ever bother you that too many people are turned off by Zappa's lyrics. They don't realize he was a brilliant musician because all they know are the goofy or offensive lyrics. They just can't seem to listen to him with an open mind.

Ike - Our strongest audiences were in Europe and the East Coast of the US because most Americans are overly concerned with lyrics. In Europe they know the music is most important. So we said fuck on a record. Big deal. His music was most important thing. He wrote the most incredible, most beautiful music. You just got to listen to it with an open mind. And most of our American audience just didn't understand it. Just listen to the music because you'll never go wrong. He wrote the lyrics like that because he was funny and they fit. If you don't like it, we can't help you.

AJ - What were Zappa rehearsals like?

Ike- They were incredible rehearsals. There was lots of humor and laughing but it was also like a boot camp. We rehearsed five or six days a week and eight hours a day. We put in forty hours a week just like everyone else who works. That's how we were paid. Some band members didn't have as much fun as I did. It was like taking music theory 101 in music school. There was a lot of sight reading and going over charts. The whole thing was just like priceless information and we had access to excellent stuff.

AJ - Zappa turned so many backstage/road stories into songs. Were you involved in any infamous episodes that turned into a song?

Ike - No. I took specific pains not to be around when those types of things occurred.

AJ - You played so many different types of characters in Zappa's songs. What is your favorite and what was the most embarrassing?

Ike - Well, Joe is my sentimental favorite because it was my first one. Once you sing a tune like "Sy Borg" you can just throw everything else out the window. (Note - "Sy Borg" is about Joe having sex with a robotic XQJ-37 nuclear-powered Pan-Sexual Roto-Plooker.) At first it was kind of embarrassing but then you start developing a thick skin. It wasn't so bad, besides it was funny as hell so why not go for it. That's what the man paid me to do.

AJ - Is "Baby Take You Teeth Out" about what I think it is?

Ike - Yes it is. It is a Bald Headed John story and Frank wrote a tune about it. Naturally it fell to me to do. They just thought "Hey, give it to Ike. He'll sing it. He'll sing anything." I was just doing my job. (Note, the song is graphic, so I'll save you the explanation.)

AJ - Is there any old material in the Zappa vaults that you worked on but was never released that you would like to release for yourself?

Ike - There is no need to. An Ike Willis album is an Ike Willis album and a Zappa thing is a Zappa thing. I get to do both. I can perform anything I want because I have Frank's permission to do so.

AJ - For years people have posted on the internet that Zappa requested a handful of songs never be played live after he died. Is that true and if so which songs were on the list?

Ike - Frank never told me that, which includes my final meeting with him. I've never been told that by anybody. I'm playing by the rules and doing what I was told. I don't have money for lawyers. I don't make a living from this and I'm struggling along. I'm remaining faithful to Frank to keep the music alive. This is one way to do it without legal ramifications. I'm just responding to a simple request from an old friend. I want to avoid any conflict at all with the Zappa family trust.

AJ - Is it true that Zappa gave you a few of Jimi Hendrix' guitars?

Ike - He didn't give them to me, but he did let me play some. I played a burned up Strat that Jimi had set fire to in Miami. That guitar was once on the cover of Guitar Player magazine. I also played Hendrix' Fender Jaguar on tour and his L5 Switchmaster. One guy that Frank loved was Jimi and Frank was nice enough to let me dig into some of that magic. My first year and half I used nothing but Hendrix guitars, which was wonderful.

AJ - I've also heard that Zappa personally set your guitar settings and amps.

Ike - You betcha. When you were a rookie he had a specific idea in mind as to everybody's sounds and volume. His bands were a mini orchestra. You couldn't have everyone rocking out while he was trying to get his compositions heard. We were not a jam band. You had to hear the blending of the instruments and the blending of everyone. When he selected the settings on my gear it took me aback at first. But I was not mad. I realized that it made perfect sense. I could hear everything everybody else was playing and nobody bitched to me about my sound. It made perfect sense.

AJ -How were Zappa's bands like mini orchestras?

Ike - Well, just visualize a conductor like Bernstein, we had the same routing. Everyone had charts. Frank would tap the baton and then we would start hammerin' out the parts. Certain sections needed to be done over and over again until we got it right. We would put together all the little tiny parts to make an orchestration. It sounded like a mini orchestra as it progressed along. Especially the parts with single note runs and different time signatures superimposed over others.

AJ - How was your experience singing the Grateful Dead song "Estimated Prophet" on Illuminati's "Terrapin" album?

Ike - The greatest part of that whole project was that whole Zappa/Grateful Dead fan connection. Most Zappa fans are also one part Deadhead and when you scratch the surface of a Deadhead you've got a Zappa head in there too. I started playing guitar and performing in the 60s, so I knew the Dead. But I was not a huge Deadhead and my tastes often drifted. But every now and then I would hear certain Dead tunes I liked. I heard "Estimated" and I always loved it but I never knew the actual name of it. When Joe called me to do it, I hoped it was that one song that I always loved. It turned out that it was indeed my favorite Grateful Dead song and the one song I always wanted to do. I love everything about it. Joe Gallant said I'm the only person he knows that can sing in 7/8 and not have a problem.

AJ - What kind of dirty pictures is that song about?

Ike - It's about the porn movie business. My older brother Michael occasionally sends me lyrics. He is one of the top Black architects in the country and he is based in San Francisco. He has a way with words and he sent me his observations on the porn business because San Francisco has tons of it. The music just popped into my head. So it was a Willis Brothers collaboration. We have written a couple of tunes together in the past.

AJ - Have you ever written music for a porn movie?

Ike - I have written music for a few porn movies. But it was just small stuff. When Madonna was huge someone had me come to a studio and lay down some fake Madonna "Like a Virgin" guitar. But it was nothing big. The wife of one of my guitar players was a famous porn star and one of my old keyboard players did music for porn movies.

AJ - I love the soaring guitar work throughout "Dirty Pictures" Tell me about your guitar playing on the album.

Ike - Well, thanks it's nice to be appreciated as a guitarist because most people didn't even know I played guitar. I have played guitar for 35 years but most people thought I was just a vocalist. I'm doing almost all of the rhythm guitar parts and most of the solos except for a few. It is definitely a complement to me that people like my guitar playing and I have had a great response from crowds from Project/Object gigs. At these shows I get a play my normal guitar parts that I played on the original Zappa albums and tours.

AJ - What can you tell me about the instrumentals on the album?

Ike - Believe it or not these were my first instrumentals I've ever released. I tossed and turned over this one for a while. Will anyone like them? In my final analysis I said "Aahh what the hell." Frank used to say, "If they don't like it fine. If they do like it fine." The main thing is I like it. Does it satisfy me and get the points across. I love the way they came out. I'm was nervous because when you present your own compositions for perusal to friends, band, and listeners it's personal. You are presenting very personal stuff. And everything is so subjective. What's a good writer? As opposed to who? One person's good stuff is another person's trash. There is no difference at all. So I thought I'd give it a shot. I thought I wouldn't be a real musician unless I had a real live instrumental tune that sounds like music and that isn't dependent on an intro, chorus, bridge, basic pop song formula. I always have soundtracks going through my head 24 hours a day so I figured I might as well record one and see what I come up with.

The first instrumental on the album "AJ" is dedicated to my mom. The second one is the "Love Theme from the Foreigner from Boston". "Foreigner From Boston" was my first rock opera attempt. On my first CD, "Should've Gone Before I Left" I created a Foreigner from Boston character. He was a rock and roll detective super hero. I wrote this rock opera scenario in 1981 when the music industry was awash with one-name groups like Styx, Boston, Kansas, you get the idea. So I called my hero The Foreigner from Boston. I envisioned a video and this "Love Theme" would be the played as the credits rolled.

AJ -You also have a song about Newt Gingrich called "Eye of Newt."

Ike - Most of my stuff is political. I wrote and recorded it when he was in his heyday and he was still speaker and trying to take over. I was originally gonna do it on the Conan O'Brien show but my record label dropped the ball and couldn't get it out on time. It would have been perfect. Between the time it was finished and pressed and released a whole year had gone by and Newt had been booted out of office. My window of opportunity was totally gone. I could have had lots of controversy and airplay.

I like getting the word out in the open about people like Newt because that is what I learned from Frank. He wanted to get information out there so we know who is running our government. I was a political science major at Washington University in St. Louis. It's pretty much self evident with old Newt. He's one of those old Pat Buchanan neo Fascist Nazi types that gets on my nerves and scares me. I never trust people that want to go back to happier simpler times. When Newt was at his height of power, I had to say something about it.

AJ - Now that Newt is gone what politician are you going to pick on?